Just realized something: FFXIV is a terrible DPS player's DREAM come true...

[Enyalios]

You haven't proved anything! All you've done is cement the OPs point and showed that DPS are not accounted for. You'll do a poor job at end game and be a poor DPS. I can't wait

[Shurrikhan]

lol, nice ad hominem, I'll humor you. You have no idea how I play the game. I haven't even got into endgame Savage yet and no one has complained about my lack of doing rotations and in fact, people commend me because I actually seem to know what I'm doing, without a parser! Gasp unbelievable I know.

And having a parser doesn't make a person better. All it does is make people be toxic and again, wave their e-peens around. Having a parser wouldn't make me better and I know a lot where it wouldn't make others better either so your argument is moot.

No one has argued that parsers make directly make players better. They do, however, make players more aware of their performance and the dynamics within, which greatly facilitates improvement. The sad thing is that you seem to feel so strongly that players who actively neglect self-improvement need to be protected from any implication that they can and should improve that you would joyfully ban anyone who comes forward with objective evidence and/or concrete advice therefrom.

Parsers don't make people toxic. Toxic people go from swinging around their ilvl to something that at least has real value when given a parser. Do not mistake a change in expression of toxicity for a newly surfaced nature. At worst a parser makes already irate players more accurate; whether it rightly stings more as a result is hardly a change in toxicity itself. It just means the breadth of option is more sharply focused; rather than one "carry" yelling at everyone else, he is asking only those who are underperforming to shape up. A narrower spread is not an increase to toxicity except to a player who routinely underperforms.

Now, this may differ depending on your definition of toxicity. If an earnest plea from one player to another to learn his level-capped class so he doesn't hold back group after group after group is toxicity to you, understand there is an opposite to that extreme—wherein underperforming to that extent, in effect trolling regardless of intent, is toxicity. So yes, players may become more willing and able to promote their own performance goals when they can be sure that they first are absolutely meeting them. And thus its discussion increases. Information tends to do that.

[AphraelAmarantha]

You haven't proved anything! All you've done is cement the OPs point and showed that DPS are not accounted for. You'll do a poor job at end game and be a poor DPS. I can't wait

lol, I haven't said I proved anything yet, I said I'm going to enjoy proving you wrong. If you going to try to bully or bait me, at least get your reading comprehension down first, lmfao.

[Shurrikhan]

Lol, we'll see since I am going to enter Savage soon.

Hi, I'm looking to raid. I look forward to working with you and having you banned if I suspect you are making use of commonplace information systems.

"What happened to our Astrologian?"
"Oh, his Balance decisions were seemingly hyper-accurate, so the Black Mage figured he was parsing and had him banned."
"Not because he never got cards?"
"Do you think he actually knew why?"

[Enyalios]

lol, I haven't said I proved anything yet, I said I'm going to enjoy proving you wrong. If you going to try to bully or bait me, at least get your reading comprehension down first, lmfao.

Please, tell me. How're you gonna prove you're not a bad DPS and prove me wrong? We don't have parsers

[AphraelAmarantha]

Snip

I won't disagree that it makes people aware, but its up to the player to make the decision to improve and 9 out of 10 times from my experience it just makes them a toxic d**k. I've seen my friends suffer from dumbnuts who think they are better than everyone else because they started using a parser, being bullied upon, and even worse. "Oh look at me I have my 98th percentile rating in my raid, whats your problem? GTFO cuz I want nothing to do with you anymore" and other nonsense that is not conductive to an active game community. I've seen good friendships destroyed because of parsers because so called friends are too busy preening their feathers and putting their friends down instead of just playing the game.

I never said anything that a bad player needs to be protected. However, a bad player can be called out without use of a parser. Also, if a player sucks so bad that even after telling them mechanics and how to do an optimized rotation and they still suck, yeah that player needs kicked.

Please, tell me. How're you gonna prove you're not a bad DPS and prove me wrong? We don't have parsers

Oh no, I'm going to prove you wrong that I will be called out in Savage. I'll be more than happy to post logs of each battle if you want so you can see any convos. :P

[KokonoeAiyoko]

The reports will do nothing thankfully. I've never used a parser myself, but as someone who delved into raiding in 2.0 and 3.0, parsers are everywhere and people discuss them openly, and GM's aren't gonna go around mass banning players for trying to win at the game regardless of what the rule states. They actually want to keep their customers.

Tbh, when someone showed me a while back my DPS was lacking all it did was motivate me to get my DPS up to par and it helped me tremendously.

[Arrius]

Instead of calling out one person, maybe actually get together as a group and get better? Also, based on some other threads I've been lurking on, apparently it's easy to tell just from watching other people to see if they are doing bad or not so again, why do you need a parser when you can tell who is doing bad without one and the game was not built for a parser?

Or how about that one should perform strive for self-improvement instead of using everyone else as a crutch? There are guides, everywhere, where you can fall back to. This forum, reddit, personal blogs, in form of google docs, even video ones on YouTube.
How come we only have to work for getting better if the others don't even bother to try?

[BubblyBoar]

Can we like....stop the nonsense? Seriously? I can't believe this topic has gone on this long. It's like the people arguing ignore all the sensible posts that solve the whole conversation and just argue to argue. Then they wonder why people don't want parsers.

People ask for parsers claiming a few things. They claim they want to help people improve themselves, or find out the weak link that is causing them to hit enrage, or to evaluate themselves, and some, without saying it, just want to lord their numbers over others. This confuses me because all of this can be done in the game already, save the last one.

SE is pretty much running with a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Let's be honest; they aren't stupid. They know most people raiding and doing semi to hardcore content run parsers. They know you are doing it. And as long as you aren't being report and outright say you are, and as long as you aren't harassing anyone, they let you do what you want. Parsers ARE against their ToS, but it's just there to prevent harassment and malicious programs. So use them all you want, SE will just ignore that you are until you give them a reason to look at you.

That said, 99% of the reasons people re asking for parsers are already things now. Want to self-improve? There's plenty of resources out there to seek. You have to issues with getting banned or anything because only you know you are running the thing. You don;t have to tell anyone or let anyone know in game because you are just improving yourself...right?

Trying to help others? They will be the same. You can point them in the direction of guides and even help them get their own. As long as it's just between you and them, it's no issue if you really trying to help them and they want it right?

So what about finding the weak link that's making you hit enrage? Nothing is stopping you from parsing the group right? You just can't say anything. So just let them know they are doing not-so-great damage. They know you are parsing, but as long as you don't actually say you are, you are safe. If they want to improve, they will improve and we'll be at point number 2. If they don't, they'll just blow you off and make excuses, in which case, just kick them or leave the group. If they ask for proof, just say "I was watching you, I just know." It's likely they are just trying to make excuses and call you out for using a parser. You not being able to show them doesn't stop you from leaving the group or kicking them. You don't have to provide actual proof to do those things.

So that just leaves the last reason people want the built in parsers, which for those that have this reason, will not admit. The people that want to lord their numbers over others. "I'm the best DPS in this group, you all suck" and such. Without a parser to show them, this doesn't really matter. It's the only reason that actually needs the parser to be used where it can't be used now. And parsers can't be used now because this is the reason that births most of the toxicity and harassment that the anti-parser said use for their side.

What does all that mean? Parsers are fine how they are now. If you if you aren't trying to force things on others, then everything is fine. If a good player wants to get better after being told they are low DPS, then they'll seek out the information, even if parsers can't be shown in-game. If a bad player is called out, even an in-game parser won't make them perform better. They'll just lie or make excuses, even with definitive proof in their face.

[Waliel]

No it will not. Tanking and healing have more pressure than dps because their roles are support. Their first job is to maintain the safety of the party, the rest comes after. Whereas a dps's first job is to hit things. Tanking and healing requires much more group-wide responsibility, whereas dps responsibility is usually to themselves. A parser doesn't magically change the responsibility tanks and healers have.

I find healing to be more relaxing than DPSing :<. Well, in expert and 24 mans at least. Haven't "savage" healed since T5 was relevant.

So far this expansion alone, every whistle has gone to the player who sat there dead most of the fight, and every Ala Mhigo mount has gone to the player who ate every mechanic.

So yeah, even though it's anecdotal, right now the score is 100% chance.

My static's DRG said she has gotten loot from savage only when she died at least once.

Lol, we'll see since I am going to enter Savage soon. If I catch anyone is using parsers, I'll report them in an instant. I'll leave this here in case you missed it the first time:

Parsers have nothing to do with data mining.