Just realized something: FFXIV is a terrible DPS player's DREAM come true...

[Kazrah]

If you play long enough, you can usually get a feel for how long it takes for mobs and bosses to die in most content. No numbers required, just a feeling for how long it takes. You can sense roughly how long it takes for something to die, and you can usually get a good gauge on damage output if it takes too long to kill something.

Then there are the threat meters. Yes, it's not an exact gauge, but it can still give you an idea on player activity given the first rule of enmity generation: All offensive actions generate enmity, and dealing damage is definitely an offensive action. Of course the tank should be at the top of that list, otherwise damage out is the least of your concerns. An active healer (meaning they're doing both damage and healing) is usually second on threat because because they're doing two types of actions that generate threat, with healing (especially periodic healing) generating higher amounts of enmity. In the case of a active healer, DPS are usually closer behind unless in the event of popping a threat reduction cooldown (which is never enough to skew consistent results) or they died for some reason or another, which still justifies kicking them for constantly standing in bad because dead DPS means no DPS. Beyond those two reasons, if a DPS is miles behind the other non-tank players on enmity in the middle of a fight, that would indicate low activity, which would indicate low DPS output. If a healer is miles behind everyone else in threat, that would indicate the lower activity of just healing, which is fine as long as people aren't dying left and right.

And then there's another thing worth factoring in on these forums: voices on these forums are the -minority- of the player population. No matter how often you cite threads about healers whining about why they stopped healing, there are still healers healing and there are still people who want to play healers and keep playing healers because they find the playstyle fun.

[RichardButte]

And then there's another thing worth factoring in on these forums: voices on these forums are the -minority- of the player population. No matter how often you cite threads about healers whining about why they stopped healing, there are still healers healing and there are still people who want to play healers and keep playing healers because they find the playstyle fun.

Yeah, I don't mean for this to be a thread about healers but a thread about how little rests on the shoulders of DPS players (like me) compared to the other two roles in the game.

But if s/he wanted an example of healers saying "'Eff this" and rolling something else, you CAN find it in the healer forum (and I did the same, really).

As a healer if I popped a Lucid Dreaming and I'm somehow attracting more aggro than the DPS by simply doing Healer DPS (And the occassional shield/Regen if needed), and whatever we're fighting is not dying as fast as a normal pace, then that can kinda show if a certain DPS is slacking.

Yeah, if THAT happens, I think you can safely assume they're BOTH awful, heh...

The case for parsers really shouldn't be "hey, this makes it easy for me to call people out for poor performance".
it should be "hey this is showing me I'm not even close to what others are doing, I need to up my game"...

I'd like a personal parser to up my performance.

But I'm not even sure if parsers are what I'm asking for. I really just want to point out how unfair it is for healers and tanks to be playing roles where playing poorly will be noticed while it's extremely difficult to tell just HOW poorly a DPS player is doing, or even if they're truly doing poorly at all.

[Kazrah]

Yeah, I don't mean for this to be a thread about healers but a thread about how little rests on the shoulders of DPS players (like me) compared to the other two roles in the game.

That's true of most major MMORPGs, hence why DPS is always considered the non-essential role and can be easily replaced if found to be lacking. Also like most games, figuring out exact numbers requires a third-party add-on that is a ToS violation not just for this game, but the majority of MMORPGs on the market with games like WoW and Rift being among just a handful of exceptions.

What makes FFXIV seem like an exception is because the gap between damage among DPS jobs and damage from essential role jobs (a.k.a. tanks and healers) is much smaller compared to other MMORPGs, resulting in cases where greater improvement can be gained from healers dealing damage and tanks maxing their damage rather than trying to have a DPS player pushing their limits even further. That might sound bad, but it's actually a good thing as something that promotes finer gameplay among tank and healer players.

But if s/he wanted an example of healers saying "'Eff this" and rolling something else, you CAN find it in the healer forum (and I did the same, really).

Yeah, just like how you can find threads like this one.

Sorry, but I need to be really blunt here: with all the whining and moaning threads you seem to have posted, maybe this game just isn't for you. Honestly, it seems like you spend more time making threads like this than you do actually playing the game. I'll admit I'm probably not the best spokesperson for this given how much I post here (usually while waiting on DPS queues) and how much I've slowed down in the game to keep myself from burning out (and also waiting for that blasted server transfer lock to end), but I really feel like someone needed to point that out.

[RichardButte]

Sorry, but I need to be really blunt here: with all the whining and moaning threads you seem to have posted, maybe this game just isn't for you. Honestly, it seems like you spend more time making threads like this than you do actually playing the game. I'll admit I'm probably not the best spokesperson for this given how much I post here (usually while waiting on DPS queues) and how much I've slowed down in the game to keep myself from burning out (and also waiting for that blasted server transfer lock to end), but I really feel like someone needed to point that out.

I know what you're saying, but the game is DEFINITELY for me. I love crafting/gathering in this game so damn much it's worrisome. I also do enjoy the boss encounters, raids, etc.

Its just that I A) would like to have a reliable DPS parser to know how to get better at my DPS job and B) feel like healing is a bit schizophrenic in that they can't really decide what healers are supposed to do in this game, given how healing spells can bring a raid to full in 2-3 GCDs.

XIV does everything WoW does better except for raiding and how the game handles glamour/transmog (and maybe PvP). XIV also has more side pursuits than most MMOs could ever HOPE to have: Triad, Choco racing/breeding, maps, crafting, gathering, PotD, housing, hunts, etc, etc.

Beyond that, XIV has heart, as I can feel the passion the developers have for making this game the best it can be (and that includes the localization team who knocks it out of the park every friggin' time).

Is it perfect? Of course not, nothing is, and I'll raise those issues on the forums when something bothers be, but I'll do it respectfully and constructively because I don't want to belittle anyone who worked on this game. So yeah, I'll complain, but that's just me voicing an opinion on something I feel would be more fun if it was done differently. There's no malice behind it at all.

Why people are so OBSESSED with calling out people on less-than optimal performance?
This game's content is really forgiving. Just CHILL, man. Put some sugar over that salt.

I'm not advocating the calling out of anyone so much as I'm pointing out that, as the game currently sits, you have two roles that can and WILL get called out for sub-par performance and one that generally won't.

And here's the thing: knowing that players can see how well you're performing creates an incentive to play better, one that really isn't there when it's extremely difficult to gauge how well you're playing.

If you could tell at a glance which DPS are doing well and which are doing poorly, hell, you might see more DPS players choosing to tank or heal instead because there would be pressure equally distributed across all the roles instead of just tanks and healers feeling that pressure.

[Penthea]

Its just that I A) would like to have a reliable DPS parser to know how to get better at my DPS job

Then how about posting in that other massive thread about parsing instead of creating another one with a clickbaity title such as "XIV is a bad dps's dream"?

I'm glad you like the game but you seriously give the opposite impression. It's one thing to rant on the forums, it's another to be creating so many negative threads in a short space of time.

I'm not advocating the calling out of anyone

Blizzard don't either but it happens anyway. You can't completely control how players use content. It's why dps meters very often have a negative effect and why healers are essentially played like hybrids even though they're not intended to be.

If you could tell at a glance which DPS are doing well

Herein lies the issue with parsing; the glance. Most players take a glance and assume numbers are black and white. Most players don't know or don't care to think "maybe that person has bad gear, maybe they got targeted by a lot of mechanics, maybe they had to do off-healing" and so on. They just look at dps rankings and assume last = bad.

because there would be pressure equally distributed across all the roles instead of just tanks and healers feeling that pressure.

Parsers will do NOTHING to change the amount of pressure tanks and healers get. They're under pressure because of the nature of their roles. Not because of the absence of parsers. I healed in WoW for ten years and I never once felt a dps meter took pressure off of me. In fact the dps meter often drove people to take stupid risks to do better dps and that gave me more healing to do.

Sorry, but I need to be really blunt here: with all the whining and moaning threads you seem to have posted, maybe this game just isn't for you. Honestly, it seems like you spend more time making threads like this than you do actually playing the game.

You're definitely not the only one who has noticed.

[Krotoan]

But I'm not even sure if parsers are what I'm asking for. I really just want to point out how unfair it is for healers and tanks to be playing roles where playing poorly will be noticed while it's extremely difficult to tell just HOW poorly a DPS player is doing, or even if they're truly doing poorly at all.

It's telling that you can still kill a boss if a DPS goes down permanently, or a trial even if half the DPS falls off or whatever, but you lose your tank or your healer and it's game over (barring certain fights, or RDMs.. )

I will say yes, that's why DPS has a hour long queue : not that hard to play.
is that what you're going for? I dunno if it's "heaven" though, people still give DPS a hard time, it's just a little less quantifiable than healer or Tank.

I think just in general : People like to blame others.

[Bongaboi]

No matter how often you cite threads about healers whining about why they stopped healing, there are still healers healing and there are still people who want to play healers and keep playing healers because they find the playstyle fun.

I am one of those. As a proud healer and as a white mage, I like to make sure players in my party clear a dungeon or trial. My role is strictly defined. I heal players, I rez players, I limit break when I need to. As a DPS I got a SAM that is currently 53 but I leave that for Hildebrand and 50-level runs. In game, Healer and DPS are my strengths, but Tank is a whole different story.