Just realized something: FFXIV is a terrible DPS player's DREAM come true...

[The_Last_Dragoon]

snip

I recently had a run in with a multi-boxer, and yeah, it was not only super obvious but it quite literally put all of the work onto my shoulders. Technically from what I've seen on Reddit, you can't ban someone for playing multiple accounts at once, but it's against the ToS for that person to abuse things like Vote kicking, purposely hindering duty progression, or tying actions from both characters to a single button (which is deemed as "auto-play").

[Snow_Princess]

How do you ascertain how much damage they're doing vs. the (at least one) other DPS in the party?

I don't personally know what the rotations of all of the DPS classes look like at level 70, nor do I have the time while I'm healing, tanking or DPSing to scrutinizethem by watching their character's animations instead of my own rotation, AoEs, HP bars, etc.

So HOW are you determining, beyond a shadow of a doubt, which of the DPS in the party is doing far less damage than they should?



I have not, and nor am I GOING to do so.

You don't need to do "research" to know when the healer let someone die or when the tank isn't holding aggro, and once again, I don't have time to watch what another DPS player is doing when I have my own rotation and CDs to watch.

And to further crush this notion into the dirt, I've spent plenty of time learning DPS classes in dungeons and I KNOW I wasn't very good at them, yet I have NEVER been called out for performing like crap on a DPS. I still regularly botch the hell out of my rotation as a MCH. I'm learning, but it's a lot to put into muscle memory. Again, NEVER been called out.

Tank and healer? If I screw up, I hear about it.

Yeah it is just an experience issue on your part. Once you play a job enough you know what animations should go in order. Caster jobs like BLM are even easier to tell. Also there is the buff bar, if a brd can't keep straight shot up/ dots up, there is an issue. If there is not enough rain of death spam on monsters tab though the targets, most of the time one is dotted. Also if your talking about 4 man, a skilled DPS can EASILY tell how much the other is doing based on knowing how fast stuff should die. At this point I can tell who the issue is no matter the role I play. The only time it is hard to tell is when both are bad, and you can't tell who is worse, this is where enmity gauges and gear checking can help, if they have a huge ilevel gap, .. well you found yer problem.

[Rufalus]

I think this problem is more people with bad attitude. Nobody should be yelled at even if they have been identified as a weak link. Harassment isn't ok.

[Xdark93]

playing a dps for as long as i have i can tell almost immediately when the other dps is not doing so good. if my dps is out dpsing theirs that's when something is up, but like you said you can't tell what the real reason is whether they are using a macro to be lazy or just don't know how to play their job. its difficult to ascertain if the dps is to blame for a parties' shortcomings especially so if you are the healer or tank because its not their job to track their damage output and compare them to eachother to say "yeah its this guys fault cause he isn't doing enough damage" but from my experience i can tell when we are struggling due to a dps problem, i've played dps for a long time and its stuck with me mentally on what the other dps should be doing.

[Shurrikhan]

Quick Tip: When you see healer DoTs up, or see the healer casting attacks... you know it's not the healer. So long as the DoTs are being maintained in single target and aren't overhealing or using inferior/MP-efficiency spells unnecessarily, they are acing their DPS components. There's really very, very little to think about. Inversely, when you see the same standards from a DPS, that's just the bare minimum.

So, assuming both are at least have maximal or near-maximal offensive uptime, who do you think gets blamed?

In my experience, it's not the healer.

I don't pretend to be the best at every job I have leveled, but I can at least determine what poor play looks like, and will advise others accordingly. That leaves me with every job until 61 I can advise, and over half at 70. And across that time, assuming that all are at least doing something, the one with the largest gap between some thing and the right thing has always been the most likely to be the object of inquiry.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

On the larger topic:

Yes, whichever "role" has no short-term focuses will show the least difference in performance through the fight itself. They shape nothing but its speed (unless ripping enmity from the tank). You can solve this by
- removing the gag-order on objective performance information such as given by parsers, hopefully improving upon the concept in the process, and/or
- adding more short-term goals that need be met, making the DPS role more integral to the dynamics of the fight, rather than simply being the quickest way to deplete a metric of a series of hitboxes to zero.

[Bongaboi]

No matter how often you cite threads about healers whining about why they stopped healing, there are still healers healing and there are still people who want to play healers and keep playing healers because they find the playstyle fun.

I am one of those. As a proud healer and as a white mage, I like to make sure players in my party clear a dungeon or trial. My role is strictly defined. I heal players, I rez players, I limit break when I need to. As a DPS I got a SAM that is currently 53 but I leave that for Hildebrand and 50-level runs. In game, Healer and DPS are my strengths, but Tank is a whole different story.

[Penthea]

Seriously, healers get blamed for not keeping people alive. Tanks get blamed for not holding aggro.

But DPS continue getting off scott-free because no one can actually tell if they're to blame or not.

Well dps aren't going to get blamed for not healing enough or not tanking properly.

Dps don't get blamed for things very often because their primary role isn't support. Tanks support the group by keeping aggro and using defensive cds to stay alive, healers heal unavoidable damage and cleanse...dps hit things until they fall over.

That is simplifying it but that's the basis of it. When a tank or healer makes a mistake it can kill the whole party. When a dps makes a mistake it very rarely results in a wipe.

And seriously very few players go to XIV thinking "finally a game where my terrible dps won't get noticed!". These players are lazy and any decent player can spot laziness without assistance. What is harder to spot are players who try their best but don't realise they're terrible. But these are not the people OP is on about because the way he phrased the title of this thread is heavily implying these terrible dps know they're terrible and are taking advantage of XIV to continue to be terrible.

This is a very thinly veiled pro-parser thread, in the guise of placing blame more equally across the party.

[Shippuu]

Yes, yes, of course. How will those players ever know they are playing badly and therefor should not be enjoying themselves or the game at all?

Their enjoyment doesn't get to come at the cost of the other party member's enjoyment. The actual decent thing to do is to perform your best to meet a good standard so everyone is having a good time.

If their enjoyment hinges on them getting to be lazy or incompetent and having other people pick up their slack in a cooperative game then they honestly shouldn't be playing such games.

[Maero]

Dps usually get called out though, moreso then bad healers...

[Zeonsilt]

That is simplifying it but that's the basis of it. When a tank or healer makes a mistake it can kill the whole party. When a dps makes a mistake it very rarely results in a wipe.

This does not apply to hard content, though.

- In hard content any 1 person can wipe entire Raid group (Susano's Thundercloud as example, or two Lightning AoE attack in a row)
- If DPS will make a mistake and die(sometimes many times), it's still a wipe due to low DPS and boss enrage timer.