Just realized something: FFXIV is a terrible DPS player's DREAM come true...

[RichardButte]

I recently switched from maining a healer to maining a DPS, and this just occurred to me: I went from a high pressure role, to a NO pressure role. I'll explain...

Unless you're in a static that runs a parser, a DPS player can be utterly horrible at their role yet never get called out for it.

Think about it...

1. No DPS meters so no one can see how bad they are.

2. If the DPS in a dungeon seems slow, they can (and WILL) blame the healer for not DPSing enough.

3. There's always at least one other DPS in the party with them to mitigate some of the blame. Do you have two middling DPS, or one amazing and one awful? You'll never know!

Seriously, healers get blamed for not keeping people alive. Tanks get blamed for not holding aggro.

But DPS continue getting off scott-free because no one can actually tell if they're to blame or not.

We have two roles in which players will be readily judged upon how well they perform (and chastised for making mistakes of any kind), and one where you absolutely CANNOT judge the player on the primary role they're supposed to be performing without admitting that you're running a forbidden 3rd party application! Just don't stand in the bad until they DIE, or pull mobs before the tank does and no one will ever know how bad they are.

And we wonder why no one wants to tank or heal and the queue times are so long...

PS. I don't claim to be a good DPS myself or anything, but I know for a fact that I'll never get called out for being a bad one...

EDIT: And before anyone else suggests that you can just "watch their rotations"...

1. You don't need to observe the rotations of a tank or a healer to know when they're failing to perform their roles adequately.

2. I have better things to do than watch another DPS player in an attempt to ascertain whether they're doing a good job: I have my OWN rotations, AoEs, HP bars, adds, etc to watch for.

3. Even if their rotation LOOKS on point, you'll have to inspect every DPS player to see if their gear happens to be garbage (whereas you'll notice right away if a tank/healer is wearing awful gear).

4. I've taken DPS classes I barely understand into dungeons many, MANY times in the past, and played horrendously. I still botch my MCH rotation fairly often. How many times have I been called out on it? Zero.

In fact, I'm guessing that most players are so worried about being accused of running a 3rd party parser that they're AFRAID to call a DPS out for playing badly.

Bottom line, none of this is a RELIABLE way to determine if a DPS is absolutely horrendous, and that's why DPS is an extremely low-pressure role while healer and tank are the opposite.

Determining if a tank or healer isn't performing is as easy as looking at HP bars. Determining if a DPS isn't performing is like a goddamn forensics investigation by comparison...

PS. I'm not trying to imply that all DPS players are bad, don't try, or anything of the sort, only that the game really doesn't do enough to help us tell a good DPS from a bad one. If two DPS both don't stand in the bad, determining which one of them was the weak link on the team requires either far more investigation that you have time for in a dungeon run or a 3rd party parser (which aren't officially supported in any capacity).

[BubblyBoar]

You don't need meters to tell when a bad DPS is bad.

[Claire_Pendragon]

You don't need meters to tell when a bad DPS is bad.

While this may be true most of the time, there are exceptions, as most of my O2S groups cant beat the enrage timer, even if they dodge everything perfectly.
my raid group tells me I was parsing 3.8k on my 1st attempt, and since they ive gotten better gear and better at the fight, so i know its not like im not doing good enough. but since im using lucid dream to keep throwing MP to the healers/BRDs, I cant look at threat as an indicator either.

[KageTokage]

You don't need meters to tell when a bad DPS is bad.

This.

The attacks for each class are distinctive enough that if you've played them or done some research on them, you'll know whether or not someone is doing their rotation properly.

That said, I've run into PLDs who do nothing but spam their enmity combo in OS1 multiple times now. More depressingly, all of them had cleared it before.

[Ayer2015]

The attacks for each class are distinctive enough that if you've played them or done some research on them, you'll know whether or not someone is doing their rotation properly.

I'm not playing and analyzing every job just so I can pick out the player who don't pull their weight.....

[RichardButte]

You don't need meters to tell when a bad DPS is bad.

How do you ascertain how much damage they're doing vs. the (at least one) other DPS in the party?

I don't personally know what the rotations of all of the DPS classes look like at level 70, nor do I have the time while I'm healing, tanking or DPSing to scrutinize them by watching their character's animations instead of my own rotation, AoEs, HP bars, etc.

So HOW are you determining, beyond a shadow of a doubt, which of the DPS in the party is doing far less damage than they should?

The attacks for each class are distinctive enough that if you've played them or done some research on them...

I have not, and nor am I GOING to do so.

You don't need to do "research" to know when the healer let someone die or when the tank isn't holding aggro, and once again, I don't have time to watch what another DPS player is doing when I have my own rotation and CDs to watch.

And to further crush this notion into the dirt, I've spent plenty of time learning DPS classes in dungeons and I KNOW I wasn't very good at them, yet I have NEVER been called out for performing like crap on a DPS. I still regularly botch the hell out of my rotation as a MCH. I'm learning, but it's a lot to put into muscle memory. Again, NEVER been called out.

Tank and healer? If I screw up, I hear about it.

[Snow_Princess]

How do you ascertain how much damage they're doing vs. the (at least one) other DPS in the party?

I don't personally know what the rotations of all of the DPS classes look like at level 70, nor do I have the time while I'm healing, tanking or DPSing to scrutinizethem by watching their character's animations instead of my own rotation, AoEs, HP bars, etc.

So HOW are you determining, beyond a shadow of a doubt, which of the DPS in the party is doing far less damage than they should?



I have not, and nor am I GOING to do so.

You don't need to do "research" to know when the healer let someone die or when the tank isn't holding aggro, and once again, I don't have time to watch what another DPS player is doing when I have my own rotation and CDs to watch.

And to further crush this notion into the dirt, I've spent plenty of time learning DPS classes in dungeons and I KNOW I wasn't very good at them, yet I have NEVER been called out for performing like crap on a DPS. I still regularly botch the hell out of my rotation as a MCH. I'm learning, but it's a lot to put into muscle memory. Again, NEVER been called out.

Tank and healer? If I screw up, I hear about it.

Yeah it is just an experience issue on your part. Once you play a job enough you know what animations should go in order. Caster jobs like BLM are even easier to tell. Also there is the buff bar, if a brd can't keep straight shot up/ dots up, there is an issue. If there is not enough rain of death spam on monsters tab though the targets, most of the time one is dotted. Also if your talking about 4 man, a skilled DPS can EASILY tell how much the other is doing based on knowing how fast stuff should die. At this point I can tell who the issue is no matter the role I play. The only time it is hard to tell is when both are bad, and you can't tell who is worse, this is where enmity gauges and gear checking can help, if they have a huge ilevel gap, .. well you found yer problem.

[Deceptus]

You don't need meters to tell when a bad DPS is bad.

Nothing like 35+ minute dungeon runs.

[Destatiredux]

OP, that's not necessarily true. Identifying bad dps is possible even without a parser. You just have to observe their actions- especially easy if you play a healer. Of course, what's mediocre, bad, or inexcusable is a matter of perception.

[Rawrz]

If i see a Healer casting a single target filler, dots, and AoE spam, I know it's not the healer. The fact that seeing a healer try to perform its healing role and Dpsing is considered extraordinary enough to earn a comm, is proof enough that most people recognize when a Healer dpses.

The ones who are really screwed are the DPS. They are the backbone of damage for the group. If one is underperforming, the other gets dragged along with it. "Wow guys these pulls are taking forever. *BLM begins to sob internally as the DRG has full TP.*

Please stop making healer DPS threads to try and remove the duality of the role. ... Oh this might be legitimate...