Tales from the Storm Discussion

[Lutefisk]

Call me cynical but I think our unnamed historian does not think very highly of Lyse. If he really were crushing on her he'd be trying to avoid her gaze instead of looking right past her and that even Lyse has picked up on this habit of his implies that he's not attempting to hide his feelings.

In any case I reckon someone who knows the ins and outs of the political landscape of Gyr Abania is going to become a key player in the future. I hope we'll be seeing him in the MSQ soon.

[Enkidoh]

Call me cynical but I think our unnamed historian does not think very highly of Lyse. If he really were crushing on her he'd be trying to avoid her gaze instead of looking right past her and that even Lyse has picked up on this habit of his implies that he's not attempting to hide his feelings.

In any case I reckon someone who knows the ins and outs of the political landscape of Gyr Abania is going to become a key player in the future. I hope we'll be seeing him in the MSQ soon.

Calling it now: it's Erik.

[Mysterysword]

Being a strong female character and being defined solely by their relationships with male characters is not mutually exclusive. Lyse is given an automatic boost to commander of the Resistance because of who her father was, even considering that she doesn't have that many great leadership qualities. I don't think Minfilia was a very well-written character, but I'll still say that she was a better leader than I expect Lyse will be.

Yes, I am seriously saying that there are women who chat at length about things that have nothing to do with romance. Here's a short summary of things I've talked about recently with one of my female friends:

- Wholemeal cinnamon rolls are a terrible lie.
- Never buy gluten-free cake, especially at $6 a slice.
- NieR: Automata sure looks awesome, but it sucks that we can't afford it at $100+ on Steam.
- Awful customers at our past/present jobs.
- University applications.

Note how none of that even remotely involved romantic prospects, because we couldn't care less about it if we were paid to do so. There are plenty of things they could've talked about, without defaulting to romance.

[Cilia]

Yes, I am seriously saying that there are women who chat at length about things that have nothing to do with romance.

Real people acknowledge this because they don't live in pieces of fiction.

I and several other people have pointed out this is literally the first time the characters in question have discussed romance ever. I acknowledge there was no need for them to do so and there are a great many other things they could have discussed, but what was so wrong about the topic drifting to romance?

[Mysterysword]

what was so wrong about the topic drifting to romance?

Because it's irritating as all hell that people believe that all small talk between women should involve or default to romance. Let me ask the opposite question: why did the topic have to drift to romance? Why couldn't they have stayed away from it?

[Cilia]

Because it's irritating as all hell that people believe that all small talk between women should involve or default to romance. Let me ask the opposite question: why did the topic have to drift to romance? Why couldn't they have stayed away from it?

Nobody has stated that all small talk between women should involve or default to romance. (Well, someone might have, but that's not correct.)

There was no reason it had to drift to romance and there was no reason they could not have stayed away from it. Whether you personally like it or not, sometimes things go that way. This is one time in years' worth of content, not a constant companion. Why so serious?

[LineageRazor]

Because it's irritating as all hell that people believe that all small talk between women should involve or default to romance.

I'm kinda sorry I brought up the Bechdel test in the first place, now. Let's be fair: FFXIV as a whole does QUITE well on the Bechtel scale. The fact that a side-story scores badly does not change this overall fact. While I found the story a bit eye-rolling, I don't think that it's a horrible travesty that should never have been written. I consider it to be harmless fluff. I wish that it had been something more substantial, but I'm not offended by what we got.

Women in real life don't always talk about men, this is true. And women in this game ALSO do not always talk about men; in fact, they hardly ever do. Women in real life DO sometimes talk about men and romance, if not nearly as often as some men like to think that they do. There is no harm in the women in this game spending some time talking about romance - and, purely out of personal preference, if it WAS going to happen, I prefer to see it in a side-story, rather than in the actual game.

And, whatever we here in the forums think, I'll bet there's a sizable chunk of the playerbase (consisting of both males AND females) who really are interested in what the characters thoughts are when it comes to romance. This entry was likely intended for their benefit. While it wasn't my cup of tea and clearly not yours, you can't please everyone...

[Mysterysword]

While I found the story a bit eye-rolling, I don't think that it's a horrible travesty that should never have been written. I consider it to be harmless fluff. I wish that it had been something more substantial, but I'm not offended by what we got.

I have repeatedly stated that I find the story irritating. I do not find it offensive, I did not call it a "travesty". Those are words that others are putting in my mouth. I am irritated because, once again, this story could've been so much better, but fell short due to laziness/poor planning/lack of thought and effort.

Now, this may be surprising, but I actually like shipping, while keeping it confined to the fandom. But I would rather not have the writers deliberately shove it in here for whatever reason. It makes for poor plotting, even in something as simple as a side story.

The more I think about it, the more I'm wondering who this mystery advisor is.

He doesn't get a name, but we meet him very briefly in the level 70 CUL quest.

[Belhi]

Being a strong female character and being defined solely by their relationships with male characters is not mutually exclusive. Lyse is given an automatic boost to commander of the Resistance because of who her father was, even considering that she doesn't have that many great leadership qualities. I don't think Minfilia was a very well-written character, but I'll still say that she was a better leader than I expect Lyse will be.

Yes, I am seriously saying that there are women who chat at length about things that have nothing to do with romance. Here's a short summary of things I've talked about recently with one of my female friends:

- Wholemeal cinnamon rolls are a terrible lie.
- Never buy gluten-free cake, especially at $6 a slice.
- NieR: Automata sure looks awesome, but it sucks that we can't afford it at $100+ on Steam.
- Awful customers at our past/present jobs.
- University applications.

Note how none of that even remotely involved romantic prospects, because we couldn't care less about it if we were paid to do so. There are plenty of things they could've talked about, without defaulting to romance.

Conrad specifically states that the reason he picked Lyse wasn't due to her father but due to the fact that with such a massively diverse group of people involved in the fight for Ala Mhigo, it required someone who could both appeal to and understand the viewpoint of a very broad range of individuals and inspire them to follow her vision. Conrad specifically gives you a quest to go talk to people to show you this right before mentioning he is thinking about Lyse. Lyse isn't hugely smart but she is capable of delegating and most importantly she is a figurehead who's only agenda is to build an Ala Mhigo inclusive of everyone. She doesn't need to be smart. She just needs to know who to ask for advice, who to put in charge of what and be able to convince people to follow her goals. In fact a good part of Lyse's story is that she is her own person, capable as herself, rather than just her father's daughter and her sister's sister.

Secondly my comment wasn't that women always talk about romance but that they occasionally do. Frankly I think everyone discusses their relationships to some extent from time to time, if only to vent. Lets be clear here. This is by far not all these women talk about. We almost never here them talking about relationships. More to the point its not all they talk about. You talk like relationships are a taboo topic that people must avoid.

Out of curiosity, what would you have them talk about? The weather? The food? Complaining about dumb book cataloguing systems? Poor toiletry facilities in Rhalgr's Reach? The impractical nature of spiky armour?

Honestly I think your projecting a bit here. You seem to be the only one making the assumption this is all they talk about, that this is somehow the encompassing defining of their characters. Characters as with people can have relationships without it robbing them of independence of identity or self definition. Y'shtola and Lyse are frankly far more defined by their relationships with their mentor and their sister respectively than any of the male characters and even then they stand on their own pretty well.

To be honest this is probably not the forum for discussing the intent or effect of the writer having the characters discuss romance since it fundamentally isn't really a lore issue so I will drop the subject and agree to disagree.

[Mysterysword]

You talk like relationships are a taboo topic that people must avoid.

Out of curiosity, what would you have them talk about? The weather? The food? Complaining about dumb book cataloguing systems? Poor toiletry facilities in Rhalgr's Reach? The impractical nature of spiky armour?

I have no idea where or how you're getting this impression from what I wrote. I simply find it irritating that when trying to write a simple conversation between various female characters, the writer of this story apparently decided that it would be a good idea to throw romance in there. It is especially irritating because these female characters are otherwise not that well-written. See the entire mess with Lyse.

I gave some suggestions myself of what else they could've talked about in one of my previous posts:

Don't they honestly have any other topic to talk about? How about having Alisaie complain about Tataru not giving her pants, in Ishgard, no less? Have Lyse raise concerns that Tataru forgot her shirt.

Maybe they could've discussed some in-universe books or plays they've read/seen, which could've served as a method of world-building, however minor. It could also have served as a better way to cement their friendship, by showing that they have common interests. Hell, bring some festival into it; the Moonfire Faire's going on right now. There was so much potential that this story had, and in the end it was thrown away on meaningless shipping speculation. It could've been so much better, and yet it fell short due to laziness.