Tales from the Storm Discussion

[Mysterysword]

Being a strong female character and being defined solely by their relationships with male characters is not mutually exclusive. Lyse is given an automatic boost to commander of the Resistance because of who her father was, even considering that she doesn't have that many great leadership qualities. I don't think Minfilia was a very well-written character, but I'll still say that she was a better leader than I expect Lyse will be.

Yes, I am seriously saying that there are women who chat at length about things that have nothing to do with romance. Here's a short summary of things I've talked about recently with one of my female friends:

- Wholemeal cinnamon rolls are a terrible lie.
- Never buy gluten-free cake, especially at $6 a slice.
- NieR: Automata sure looks awesome, but it sucks that we can't afford it at $100+ on Steam.
- Awful customers at our past/present jobs.
- University applications.

Note how none of that even remotely involved romantic prospects, because we couldn't care less about it if we were paid to do so. There are plenty of things they could've talked about, without defaulting to romance.

[Cilia]

Yes, I am seriously saying that there are women who chat at length about things that have nothing to do with romance.

Real people acknowledge this because they don't live in pieces of fiction.

I and several other people have pointed out this is literally the first time the characters in question have discussed romance ever. I acknowledge there was no need for them to do so and there are a great many other things they could have discussed, but what was so wrong about the topic drifting to romance?

[Kyran-Varlsen]

I frankly did not see a problem with the topic of romance popping up, it was only towards the end and it seemed more sideline gossip than an obsessive focus.

Y'shtola sees herself as eldest and made a comment based on experience that the young lad who Lyse was referring to was likely smitten with her. Caught off guard, Lyse thought to interjrect some speculation as to Y'shtola's own interests and this then prompted a flashback for her regarding her sister Y'mhitra (the same npc involved in the Summoner storyline).

It does seem kind of odd that Y'shtola's younger sister would be trying to suggest she find someone to date or possibly settle down with while she is recovering. Or maybe not, having a family life would prevent people from rushing to the front lines to get cut down by Garlean Royalty - at least on a regular basis.

Though considering the abruptness of this plot point it did make me wonder if Square was laying the groundwork for something in the way of story development. And yes, call me sad, I did think this was a possible segue to the Warrior of Light being able to romance an npc like Y'shtola or Thancred. This seems stupid... at first. Then we look at Star Wars The Old Republic MMO where Bioware Romances among companion npc are pretty common (especially marriage). Players can already marry other players in the game, but this costs money for the ceremony. And this is a story driven game, one seemingly bereft of player input otherwise. From a marketing perspective, romance would simply be another angle for players to feel invested in the story so they keep playing and keep paying. That said, this theory has little life because the game was not built for such interaction from the beginning like TOR, it would complicate future story-telling because you can't threaten to kill off romantic interests for the players, and in the end it likely wouldn't be worth tacking onto a Final Fantasy game.

Thancred x Y'shtola... the ship that sank even before it sailed. And, no, she doesn't think of the WoL that way either.

She could, so could he. But again, this is Square Enix and not Bioware. I think they know better.

[Mysterysword]

what was so wrong about the topic drifting to romance?

Because it's irritating as all hell that people believe that all small talk between women should involve or default to romance. Let me ask the opposite question: why did the topic have to drift to romance? Why couldn't they have stayed away from it?

[Cilia]

Because it's irritating as all hell that people believe that all small talk between women should involve or default to romance. Let me ask the opposite question: why did the topic have to drift to romance? Why couldn't they have stayed away from it?

Nobody has stated that all small talk between women should involve or default to romance. (Well, someone might have, but that's not correct.)

There was no reason it had to drift to romance and there was no reason they could not have stayed away from it. Whether you personally like it or not, sometimes things go that way. This is one time in years' worth of content, not a constant companion. Why so serious?

[Belhi]

Being a strong female character and being defined solely by their relationships with male characters is not mutually exclusive. Lyse is given an automatic boost to commander of the Resistance because of who her father was, even considering that she doesn't have that many great leadership qualities. I don't think Minfilia was a very well-written character, but I'll still say that she was a better leader than I expect Lyse will be.

Yes, I am seriously saying that there are women who chat at length about things that have nothing to do with romance. Here's a short summary of things I've talked about recently with one of my female friends:

- Wholemeal cinnamon rolls are a terrible lie.
- Never buy gluten-free cake, especially at $6 a slice.
- NieR: Automata sure looks awesome, but it sucks that we can't afford it at $100+ on Steam.
- Awful customers at our past/present jobs.
- University applications.

Note how none of that even remotely involved romantic prospects, because we couldn't care less about it if we were paid to do so. There are plenty of things they could've talked about, without defaulting to romance.

Conrad specifically states that the reason he picked Lyse wasn't due to her father but due to the fact that with such a massively diverse group of people involved in the fight for Ala Mhigo, it required someone who could both appeal to and understand the viewpoint of a very broad range of individuals and inspire them to follow her vision. Conrad specifically gives you a quest to go talk to people to show you this right before mentioning he is thinking about Lyse. Lyse isn't hugely smart but she is capable of delegating and most importantly she is a figurehead who's only agenda is to build an Ala Mhigo inclusive of everyone. She doesn't need to be smart. She just needs to know who to ask for advice, who to put in charge of what and be able to convince people to follow her goals. In fact a good part of Lyse's story is that she is her own person, capable as herself, rather than just her father's daughter and her sister's sister.

Secondly my comment wasn't that women always talk about romance but that they occasionally do. Frankly I think everyone discusses their relationships to some extent from time to time, if only to vent. Lets be clear here. This is by far not all these women talk about. We almost never here them talking about relationships. More to the point its not all they talk about. You talk like relationships are a taboo topic that people must avoid.

Out of curiosity, what would you have them talk about? The weather? The food? Complaining about dumb book cataloguing systems? Poor toiletry facilities in Rhalgr's Reach? The impractical nature of spiky armour?

Honestly I think your projecting a bit here. You seem to be the only one making the assumption this is all they talk about, that this is somehow the encompassing defining of their characters. Characters as with people can have relationships without it robbing them of independence of identity or self definition. Y'shtola and Lyse are frankly far more defined by their relationships with their mentor and their sister respectively than any of the male characters and even then they stand on their own pretty well.

To be honest this is probably not the forum for discussing the intent or effect of the writer having the characters discuss romance since it fundamentally isn't really a lore issue so I will drop the subject and agree to disagree.

[Mysterysword]

You talk like relationships are a taboo topic that people must avoid.

Out of curiosity, what would you have them talk about? The weather? The food? Complaining about dumb book cataloguing systems? Poor toiletry facilities in Rhalgr's Reach? The impractical nature of spiky armour?

I have no idea where or how you're getting this impression from what I wrote. I simply find it irritating that when trying to write a simple conversation between various female characters, the writer of this story apparently decided that it would be a good idea to throw romance in there. It is especially irritating because these female characters are otherwise not that well-written. See the entire mess with Lyse.

I gave some suggestions myself of what else they could've talked about in one of my previous posts:

Don't they honestly have any other topic to talk about? How about having Alisaie complain about Tataru not giving her pants, in Ishgard, no less? Have Lyse raise concerns that Tataru forgot her shirt.

Maybe they could've discussed some in-universe books or plays they've read/seen, which could've served as a method of world-building, however minor. It could also have served as a better way to cement their friendship, by showing that they have common interests. Hell, bring some festival into it; the Moonfire Faire's going on right now. There was so much potential that this story had, and in the end it was thrown away on meaningless shipping speculation. It could've been so much better, and yet it fell short due to laziness.

[YianKutku]

I suspect some of the disconnect here is due to differing standpoints.

In media involving FFXIV, this is the first time the female characters in the Scions are talking about romance.

In media in general, a disproportionate number of conversations between female characters are about romance.

So are we judging this story based on FFXIV, or based on general media?

[Rosenoire]

Damnit, you stole my words!

This story was... more like a response to shipping than an actual attempt at expanding on lore or fleshing out characters and telling us about events that we didn't witness.

What was the whole point of this one? It didn't exactly tell me anything I didn't already know, it didn't expand on any offscreen events or character development, it just... felt really out of place in the "Tales from" series.

Agreed, wholeheartedly. I've liked some of the stories more than others, but this is the first one that's been genuinely disappointing. The structure felt choppy and disjointed, and it just didn't work for me.

[Rosenoire]

This is literally the first time we've ever seen any of the characters in question discuss romance. There are also plenty of other conversations between women and women alone that have nothing to do with men, such as a conversation between Merlwyb, Kan-E-Senna, and Nanamo sometime during 2.x (2.4, if I remember right) about politics. I don't see the need for getting so worked up over this short story.

I'm not particularly "worked up" about it, but I did roll my eyes, because of course the story that has all the women together has them gossiping about guys. I mean, if my sister had almost died, the first thing I'd think of saying to her is that she should hook up with someone. And of course, if someone says "this made me uncomfortable", then they're getting "worked up". Hysterical, even.