It is time to get a 3rd free Retainer

[Snow_Princess]

For those of you complaining that "those other MMOs have way more space", a moment of consideration.

1) You end up paying for that extra space in almost every MMO I've ever played -- on a per-character basis.

2) If Wow had a 40 slot bag, there would be 4 x 40 = 160 + 16 = 176 slots on your personal inventory and a maximum of 7 x 40 = 280 slots for stuff and another 100 slots for materials [around 550 slots] I can tell you from experience that most players never use use those 100 slots for mats, and, after Transmog no longer required a bag slot, those 280 bank slots are pretty empty these days.

We get 2 x 175 slots for retainers = 350 and (memory lapse here), about 150 slots for personal inventory. [around 500 slots]



Rather than ask for an extra retainer, you should be asking for (1) stacking of materials greater than 99 and/or (2) a glamour log so you can get rid of all that gear.

SE knows how many people fork over the cash for extra retainers. If it is 5% of the playerbase, why add another retainer in-game that isn't going to be used? If it is 45-60% of the playerbase I suspect they'd consider it.

Wow has more space then this game does. Wow is not all jobs on one character, wow has a glam log, etc. WoW and other mnos don't charge RENT! for more space, some may have a 1 time fee, but not rent. Also all that do charge are F2P i believe, this is a sub model + rent when they bloat your inventory with currency etc? that is insanely shady. I do not know how it happened but 8 x 175 = not enough here while there is more then enough in wow.

We are asking for glam log, Yoshi-P does not understand what we want when asking fort that (or does not understand how the coding would work for it) He keeps saying like it would load too much data like be counted as items as in the inventory and stress servers too much, the comment makes no sense if he understood what we mean by glam log. It would be like saying our crafting log or gather log acts like items in the inventory and stress servers, it makes zero sense.

SE does not!! know! that is the thing, they do not know how many people are not paying for more retainers that need it out of the matter of principle of not paying for this shady practice. (or can't afford it)

[Dark-Saviour]

We are asking for glam log, Yoshi-P does not understand what we want when asking fort that (or does not understand how the coding would work for it) He keeps saying like it would load too much data like be counted as items as in the inventory and stress servers too much, the comment makes no sense if he understood what we mean by glam log.

I'm pretty sure he understands. The idea is that with the current infrastructure, the flag for every item unlocked or locked would have to be carried with the character since any time you instance or whatever, it duplicates your character data and creates a new copy (including all items and inventory I guess) on the instance server. The contention seems to be that would then have to also carry the full series of unlock flags as well as the reference on each piece of gear equipped or in your inventory to its respective glamour gear.

Now you could fix the system so that this isn't as much of a nightmare or find a way to mitigate it (lock glamour log to the armoire only), but the amount of work this requires is apparently enough that, despite protestations that they can't expand the inventory, he claims they'd just go ahead and expand the inventory before doing it. :-/

[Snow_Princess]

I'm pretty sure he understands. The idea is that with the current infrastructure, the flag for every item unlocked or locked would have to be carried with the character since any time you instance or whatever, it duplicates your character data and creates a new copy (including all items and inventory I guess) on the instance server. The contention seems to be that would then have to also carry the full series of unlock flags.


Now you could fix the system so that this isn't as much of a nightmare or find a way to mitigate it (lock glamour log to the armoire only), but the amount of work this requires is apparently enough that, despite protestations that they can't expand the inventory, he claims they'd just go ahead and expand the inventory before doing it. :-/

Makes no sense to me:

It would be like saying our crafting log or gather log acts like items in the inventory and stress servers, it makes zero sense.

So no, I do not think he is completely understanding what a glam log is. Also wow does it fine... so.....

[Dark-Saviour]

Makes no sense to me:


So no, I do not think he is completely understanding what a glam log is. Also wow does it fine... so.....

I'm not saying it can't be done 'fine'. I'm saying that their method of handling character data is supposedly something that makes it so it can't be readily slotted in and requires a notable overhaul, so you'll constantly get excuses about it and can likely expect a half-arsed implementation if they do do it (like they've talked about a "glamour history" instead).

I'd very much like it to be done well, I just don't expect them to do the rewrite required if their system is as messed up as they say.

[Krotoan]

Makes no sense to me:


So no, I do not think he is completely understanding what a glam log is. Also wow does it fine... so.....

FFXIV is built on the horribadly coded original game that very few people liked and it was thrown together by many outsourced companies. They used the same engine and base code for the active game servers to talk to the character information servers.They've mentioned before that this means while you're walking around the server is constantly sending information back and forth between these servers for very little reason other than it was originally designed like that. Our characters entire inventory, currency status, quest status, timers and other unique data is being thrown back and forth the entire time you're logged in. It's like a beautiful city built on a very poorly tamped foundation. They COULD scrap it and redo the coding from the ground up, but that's what they tried to avoid when they did 2.0. Salvage what they could and make it into a game people wanted to play without just starting from nothing.
this is not an argument for or against your ideas. This is the reason they keep talking about bandwidth and servers. It's a limitation they're constantly working around due to the games origins.

[Snow_Princess]

FFXIV is built on the horribadly coded original game that very few people liked and it was thrown together by many outsourced companies. They used the same engine and base code for the active game servers to talk to the character information servers.They've mentioned before that this means while you're walking around the server is constantly sending information back and forth between these servers for very little reason other than it was originally designed like that. Our characters entire inventory, currency status,quest status, timers and other unique data is being thrown back and forth the entire time you're logged in. It's like a beautiful city built on a very poorly tamped foundation. They COULD scrap it and redo the coding from the ground up, but that's what they tried to avoid when they did 2.0. Salvage what they could and make it into a game people wanted to play without just starting from nothing.
this is not an argument for or against your ideas. This is the reason they keep talking about bandwidth and servers. It's a limitation they're constantly working around due to the games origins.

Stop being cheap then and fix the issue???? it is only going to get worse and worse and harder fix and more costly to fix the more they prolong this, they can't expect 5.0 + to be made while still doing that do they?!!?!?!?!?

I know it wasn't but it didn't make sense to me, it is really illogical to set it up that way. So sick of hearing the cut corner excuse, fix it already! While we are on loading issues, why does it take years for GM mail to load(sometimes fail to show anything, need exit the support center menu completely and try again, if you click on one letter and hit reply, you have to exit the system completely again otherwise you are spammed with failed to send, along with moogle mail being slow af. Why is the game like this? Again it feels like the servers are from the 1970s when you deal with stuff like this, and all the errors you get when trying to multitask (joining a pt while crafting, or cannot do x because you need to exit some menu.

[Claviusnex]

snip

It might be built on a horrible base but at some point the amount of time and frustration of trying to build more stuff on top of it out weighs the perceived savings. They also don't have to change everything at once. Take glamour for the sake of argument. They could build a glamour table for each character store each piece of gear you obtain in it. When you cast glamour on your gear it goes to the database to build the list of items you can select from. The retainer could be handled in a similar way since it is a limited availability interface. As the database could be shared across servers it can handle the locking and record management removing the need for passing locks around between servers. This would allow SE to also change over the regular inventory. My guess is there is common code handling the inter-server communications you describe so would be a logical place to switch over. However as I said previously I don't think SE will really do anything unless they see it affecting their revenue.

[Dark-Saviour]

It might be built on a horrible base but at some point the amount of time and frustration of trying to build more stuff on top of it out weighs the perceived savings.

Which is why the general mentality seems to be "Don't do anything that will cause us to encounter that frustration. Add new content that allows us to operate in a business-as-usual manner and forego system changes that amplify or magnify the problems."

The inventory increase with SB was probably the first major thing I believe they did where they had to confront this, and it seems that was more of a "We're within acceptable limits for performance. Let's see if we can increase it further without hitting the redline." rather than a major change.

[Claviusnex]

Which is why the general mentality seems to be "Don't do anything that will cause us to encounter that frustration. Add new content that allows us to operate in a business-as-usual manner and forego system changes that amplify or magnify the problems."

The inventory increase with SB was probably the first major thing I believe they did where they had to confront this, and it seems that was more of a "We're within acceptable limits for performance. Let's see if we can increase it further without hitting the redline." rather than a major change.

But what I was getting at is eventually, if they're not already past it, it gets to the point SE can't do anything without hitting the limitations and waste resources trying to work around it. In the end that takes more work than sitting down and figuring out how to fix the underlying architecture.

[Claviusnex]

Wow has more space then this game does. Wow is not all jobs on one character, wow has a glam log, etc. WoW and other mnos don't charge RENT! for more space, some may have a 1 time fee, but not rent.

snip

More importantly WoW crafting doesn't require all sorts of lower level items to craft. This means you don't have to keep them around as you increase your crafting abilities thereby freeing up inventory space.



The whole server not able to handle the load response from SE is just a quick way to say they don't plan to do anything without explaining why. The Retainer is really nothing more than a UI that interfaces with a database. That database resides on disk drives. When the information needs to be manipulated it is brought into virtual memory to process. Virtual memory is also nothing more than space on disk drives. Disk storage is extremely cheap and up to this point is the only part of a server that is heavily used. At some point the data will need to be loaded in real storage but it is done in segments. A poor design here could result in constrained server resources and from the little bit I've read appears to be part of the problem. However it is nothing that couldn't be fixed and would not require exponential size requirements on the servers. This is especially the case in light of the modern databases that are available today.

In my experience the main cause for problems like this being sidelined is the content producers only think about new content. They fail to realize and understand how the underlying middleware and system functions are just as important if not more so than adding some new flashy bobble. In the end the only way we will likely see a change is if the lack of action hits the bottom line. If SE sees the current inventory issues as a revenue problem something will change. Until then is is just a bunch of noise that they might bandage but never fully fix.