RDM's Vercure should be removed or heavily nerfed

[Dualgunner]

I figure the measure of potency loss depends somewhat on RNG, Impact making up for 30 of the inital 60 loss, provided you wouldn't have procced the second "Ready" status on the other Vt/a, but since it is somewhat RNG dependent it's hard to math out. I agree you'd be behind on mana though.

Yeah, after the opening couple of gcds it gets murky due to rng. I'm also biased because I'm too used to precasting Va/t lol

[PrismaticDaybreak]

Yeah, after the opening couple of gcds it gets murky due to rng. I'm also biased because I'm too used to precasting Va/t lol

Actually just thought of this, could just open with Jolt 2 and Vt/a then swift the other one, only a GCD behind and potentially 3 procs optimal, probably not, but some tanks are bad about countdowns.

[Kabooa]

Then the issue isn't with RDM it's with people that need to think outside the top tier meta box because that's not the speed they're at.

Well, that's an entire topic on its own.

Red Mage is an issue, because Red Mage (And Samurai/Monk/Black Mage) are highlighting a concern that has to be dealt with earlier than not, and that's the binary view of what belongs where at what point in progression.

I fully expect that when the next DPS jobs come out, that suddenly Samurai gets 'Utility' and we get the new 'Viking' as your pure selfish DPS, etc etc.

This is a lazy way of getting the Solo Carry players to your new class rather than giving it a different facet of the same game. This game's party size is too small to have the 'Support Tax' applied to one of the DPS roles.

Black Mage, Red, Summoner, Blue Mage, and anything else that falls into the 'Caster DPS' Role should not only be doing comparable damage to each other, but bringing something the others can't to the table. Devotion, Embolden, and other damage % 'utility' isn't utility. It's damage. It's the bottom line.

As an example

Red Mages currently bring the ability to shift the burden of raising from the healers to themselves, within reason. This is a strong ability, stronger in encounters where the expense tied to raising is going to mean someone might die down the lie. It shifts that burden from the Healer to the Red Mage. That's the utility.

Summoner and Black Mage do not really have something comparable. Mana Shift isn't unique to them, and honestly, you could argue Mana Shift simply removes the burden of MP for raising while having other uses. But only the Black mage can really make use of that.

So, moving forward, that needs to be adjusted. If Blammo's gotta be scaled down a tad (and honestly, the discrepancy isn't that far now that people are actively giving Summoners a chance), whatever's healthier for the game.

There's a whole other topic I was planning on discussing with Role Abilities, but I can drop part of that here.

Mana Shift should be removed and given and balanced solely around Black Mages. In this regard, it provides them both a similar net of use (Removing the MP burden of raise, though not the GCD burden) while having other uses (Feeding Bards, Feeding other Casters, feeding the Paladin, etc etc).

[Dualgunner]

Actually just thought of this, could just open with Jolt 2 and Vt/a then swift the other one, only a GCD behind and potentially 3 procs optimal, probably not, but some tanks are bad about countdowns.

So you'd get 540 in the first two gcds, swift then 300, followed by 720 with 14/14 mana. It's definitely a good middle ground, you end up with 1560 pot over the first 3 vs 1520 (j2 no swift) and 1590 (precast).

Alternatively you could also use swift for a third Va/t assuming no proc: 600 +720 + 300 = 1620 pot, 22/11.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

quotes

Well Summoner was supposed to bring the "all around" party buff but SE decided that table only needed one leg to stand on. And I agree with you on Mana Shift, for the most part RDM and SMN can't utilize it effectively. As far as utility, I think someone mentioned an interesting aura kind of effect that could be attached to egis, e.g. Garuda give a skill/spell speed buff, Ifrit give a damage boost of some sort, DHit or Crit I suppose. I realize those are damage "utility" but I'm not particularly imaginative in that area, perhaps for BLM make Manawall usable on a target or something. Maybe give SMN Sustain back and have it usable oGCD on a low health target (including party members) with a moderate recast.

[ADVSS]

Well Summoner was supposed to bring the "all around" party buff but SE decided that table only needed one leg to stand on. And I agree with you on Mana Shift, for the most part RDM and SMN can't utilize it effectively. As far as utility, I think someone mentioned an interesting aura kind of effect that could be attached to egis, e.g. Garuda give a skill/spell speed buff, Ifrit give a damage boost of some sort, DHit or Crit I suppose. I realize those are damage "utility" but I'm not particularly imaginative in that area, perhaps for BLM make Manawall usable on a target or something. Maybe give SMN Sustain back and have it usable oGCD on a low health target (including party members) with a moderate recast.

I was thinking the same thing, really agree with you guys also erase is kind of a weird skill too, its sort of like they meant for it to be a sort of esuna, that heals a little bit. But only cleanses a bleed dot or something.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

I was thinking the same thing, really agree with you guys also erase is kind of a weird skill too, its sort of like they meant for it to be a sort of esuna, that heals a little bit. But only cleanses a bleed dot or something.

With the amount of DoTs that aren't removable in Savage it's honestly pointless.

[ADVSS]

With the amount of DoTs that aren't removable in Savage it's honestly pointless.

Yeah I think it honestly was put there for flair, or to give rdm that esuna, but yeah pointless

[Maero]

Erase should not be on ones job skill and hotbar when you have better options to choose, Addle i much prefer even

[aleph_null]

The way I see it, is that it's really only a handicap for groups that are going for world first progression, which is a rather small percentage of the raiding population.
It's not really much of an imbalance for groups that aren't at that high level of play.

It's pretty much a necessity for the groups participating in world/server first race, but while it doesn't matter as much as for those groups, where clearing a few hours slower could mean the difference between being first and not, even for more casual groups the difference of clearing a few days slower isn't really negligible. It could mean losing a week's worth of loots for groups that clear in the first week, for example. How much it matters to them is, of course subjective. I just feel that the presence of (or lack of) rdm in a raid group has much bigger impact than any other job in the game (as in, compared to switching one tank/heal/dps job for a different one).

Any sane RDM is going to focus on learning how best to optimize their damage during progression learning where and when to CaC and Displace, what points it's important to move with DC at, when you should swiftcast instead of hardcasting Jolt 2, our role is DPS not healer bitch. Embolden, again as stated many times in this thread and others, is not that powerful, it's power is vastly overstated, it's an entire .75% more rDPS which when attributed to the RDM gives them an entire 100-150 extra DPS, and since you're so adamant people are dying, is reduced by .125% per person dead. And sure, for cutting edge progression groups like Angered RDM is absolutely mandatory, but for the other 99% of savage raiders, it is far less so, it is more than likely that having several people die means they won't see enrage, much less beat it. You're arguing RDM should be nerfed based on niche scenarios. Stop it.

Hmm well I (and my group) tend to approach progression from a different point of view compared to yours. We try to minimize mp strain on the healers until we're confident that we know how much heal they need to keep people alive through phases. This includes rdm raising before healers, panic heals from pld clemency or war equilibrium. My reasoning is that it's better to lose dps but still be able to live through mechanics/phases, rather than having dps rotation optimized but not being able to continue. Some of my earliest enrage/kill pulls in this tier had a lot of deaths. I found that the change to weakness and the rdm raising capacity made it faster to clear by just pushing through failed mechanics and deaths while hoping that you beat enrage timer, compared to practicing to execute mechanics perfectly and clear the raid in a clean pull.

This is only possible during this tier though, back in gordias/midas and even creator savage you wouldn't even think of clearing with 10+ deaths, since the reduced hp would make it impossible to pass certain mechanics/aoe dmg. Admittedly I don't have much experience with early progression, and I only cleared a12s and o4s on the third week after patch (never cleared a4s/a8s pre echo), so the way my group handles progression can definitely see many improvements.

Embolden is not as strong as hypercharge (slightly less than 1.25% raid dps) and trick attack (1.67% raid dps), but it's still pretty strong in a physical heavy composition.