How does SE justify these ten min enrages, but doesnt let anyone know their dps

[Solica]

Im personally using a parser. I never really used it to judge others and i have never talked off or kicked a person because of low dps, but i do wanna share my thoughts about what i saw. Ive seen ppl in savage omega doing less dps than the tanks, and even the healers sometimes. Way more often than you think. And i would say its fine...and that not everyone has the same skillset etc.... But i cant say that. Its not okay. As someone else said at the start of the thread, the enrage timers are really tight. So if you have just 1 person doing bad, this will result in hitting enrage. For 1 person. So there are 2 options here. Either give an official DPS metter for everyone so we can adjust the group, or adjust the enrage timers.

[Quoyan]

While it's true that your target dummy DPS is always going to be better then in the actual encounter, being to able to destroy it at least means you have a solid grasp of your class' rotation, especially if you're pulling it off at the minimum item level for the raid.

See I always worry that in actual combat I'll spend so much time worrying about mechanics that I end up doing like... half the DPS I should. I also know from the few FFlogs entries folks have actually uploaded that include me, I'm not super consistent. Back when I played on PC and could see my own DPS, I was consistent, because I could see when I was falling below my usual standard and kick myself back into gear a little.

As it stands the only thing PS4 players can rely on to kinda-sorta get an idea of how much damage they're doing is the aggro meter. Which folks do actually do, and is useless because people can use enmity mitigation and trick you into thinking you're doing far, far better than you are, which the creates a whole other problem. :\

[Remedi]

Have you looked at the hardcore groups lately? A lot of have Dragoons. In fact, Momo Sama changed from Samurai to Dragoon because he liked it better. Meanwhile, Machinist is getting dumped on by everyone. And rightly so. You don't need a parse to tell you Bard is overwhelmingly better. This doom and gloom surrounding parses just doesn't make sense. I'll reiterate, if you step into Savage, someone likely has a parse up, and job balance will always be talked about. So it isn't like one job being inferior to another isn't known already. All a parse does is allow people to see their numbers and hopefully improve.

Honestly it makes sense because hardcore raiders aren't the ones enforcing the meta, some of them are even against it, the ones that are enforcing the meta are the common players

[Waliel]

At this point I just want Squenix to enable a parser for a week and see if the servers implode.

So most people who use parsers then? I know that's generalizing, but I've seen too many people berate others, citing parse numbers as a reason.

I clearly need to PUG more, because I can't remember anyone mentioning numbers unless asked.

Think someone is going to play a dragoon or machinist if there are parsers?

Our group has one.

[Quoyan]

Honestly it makes sense because hardcore raiders aren't the ones enforcing the meta, some of them are even against it, the ones that are enforcing the meta are the common players

Folks think that playing the same job as *whichever hardcore raider* is gonna be a fast-track to huge DPS numbers, disregarding everything else that went into *whichever hardcore raider* being good at the game.
It's a little sad, really :/

[eschaton]

When doing normal rotations and stuff, enrage is -not- about your entitled parse numbers, it is about how often people are dying, or being obviously totally afk. (-min ilevel requirements and all that jazz-)

Parses are not needed, were never needed and are mostly used for engaging in toxic behavior. The "people improve with parsing"-myth slander is appalling; people improve with playing, that's all there is to it, repeated playing, all that is needed. It is not done by looking at small number differences between you, your last lucky run, or the next guy. Grow up. If you want numbers, there are these gray area's and keep them to yourself. Bai bai.

[Remedi]

Folks think that playing the same job as *whichever hardcore raider* is gonna be a fast-track to huge DPS numbers, disregarding everything else that went into *whichever hardcore raider* being good at the game.
It's a little sad, really :/

It definitively is because they completely disregard the reason why some1 made that choice.

[F_Maximillian]

For what it's worth, most of the people against parsers seem to not do the only content that parsers are relevant for. Coincidence? I think not.

For 95% of the content in the game you can place your face comfortably on the left side of your keyboard, roll it gently to the right and by the time you're all the way on the other side the fight is over. You don't need a parser for expert roulette, most if not all primals, normal mode raids, story trials, class trials, fates, and so on. There's only one type of content where minmaxing really matters and it's that content that needs some sort of parsing available.

In blade and soul (when I last played) they had damage meters in the 4man modes (equivalent to hard modes/savage if you would) but in the 6man modes (expert roulette/normal mode raid tier) there would be no parser. I fail to see why SE can't do something similar for ff. If you're raiding savage and you don't care about your numbers enough to improve or aren't even slightly interested in how you or others are doing you probably don't belong doing savage to begin with. So the only people that would see parsers are ones that want them and who would benefit from them.

[OmegaStrongtan]

Why not just a personal parser you can toggle on and off at will. No one can judge you since only you will see your numbers and you don't even have to use it. But if you want you have a clear number directly on your screen.

[HyoMinPark]

You like parsers and talk about how they assist you. That's true. Parsers can show you ways to improve but they have to be used properly.

However, players don't use them properly. Instead, people scream at you if you don't play the "best spec" and the best build the cutting edge raiders are using. I saw this in WoW and I have no reason to believe it will be different here.

I have never seen that happen here. There are some jobs that have different builds based on player preference (HW BRD had a Skill Speed build and a Crit/Det build, and the one a particular BRD went for was based off of personal preference; not necessarily "meta"). There are also different types of openers for jobs (e.g., Samurai's 1-sen opener versus 3-sen opener), and the opener used is, again, based on preference. Since both have very little variance in terms of DPS/burst.

Have you stepped foot into any of the Savage content in this game? How about Ex trials? If not, then how are you justifying being able to speak on the current state of these types of content, and the types of players that exist in said content? Using WoW as an example doesn't really work because this isn't WoW.

I research, practice, and ask for advice with every job I play. I am against parsers because of the impact they have on the community based on what I saw during my eight years playing WoW.

So, spare me your "excuse to be bad" rhetoric. I could not care less if you want to play with me or not.

I have played FFXIV for almost 2 years now. I have reported one individual--ONE--on the basis of harassment via parsers. Most people who parse do not harass people about it. The ones that do aren't worth playing with anyways (they're usually the problem in the run, and not Mr. Perfect), and are few and far between.

Again, if you haven't done any Savage or Ex content in this game, what gives you the authority to speak on the state of playerbase that frequents that content? There will be jerks in all types of content: from daily roulettes to Ex primals to Savage. Parsers or no parsers won't change that. More often than not, the people being jerks probably aren't even parsing; they're just being jerks for the sake of being jerks.


Also, going to jump in with another "my static has a DRG" comment. Because it does, and even if DRG and MCH are still suffering in terms of job design (though probably not as much as SMN is), that doesn't exclude them from Savage content. My static has a SMN as well, and we're on O3S currently. We're pretty midcore (with a few of us leaning more towards hardcore), and we have three individuals who parse during our runs. We use the parsers to examine our own contributions to the fight, to examine anywhere where we may make changes to be more optimal, and to serve as constructive criticism for each other if our performance falls short of what we want it to be. Also, it serves as a great tool to know when enrage is happening, since ACT has a fight timer for each encounter.

When doing normal rotations and stuff, enrage is -not- about your entitled parse numbers, it is about how often people are dying, or being obviously totally afk. (-min ilevel requirements and all that jazz-)

I believe this is false. There are plenty of instances where people are more than minimum ilvl for a piece of content, aren't dying, and yet are still holding a group back because they aren't using the best/most optimal rotation, aren't making use of their buffs, aren't upkeeping certain self-buffs or DoTs on bosses, etc., and in general just being lazy. Meeting enrage has a lot more to it than just "not dying and pressing 1-2-3."

Parses are not needed, were never needed and are mostly used for engaging in toxic behavior. The "people improve with parsing"-myth slander is appalling; people improve with playing, that's all there is to it, repeated playing, all that is needed. It is not done by looking at small number differences between you, your last lucky run, or the next guy. Grow up. If you want numbers, there are these gray area's and keep them to yourself. Bai bai.

This is also not true. If people don't know that they're playing poorly or sub-optimally, how are they going to improve? A lot of people confuse the enmity bars with how much DPS they're doing, when, in truth, enmity has very little to do with being Top DPS. They see "I'm #2 in terms of enmity" and think "I'm highest DPS" when that is not true most of the time. People think that doing a simple 1-2-3 rotation hitting no positionals is optimal...until they see the increase they do once they hit said positionals. People also think that food and pots are irrelevant in terms of damage...until they see the difference eating food actually makes.

Numbers absolutely help people improve, because parser data is so much more than just a number at the end of a fight. It contains data about buff usage, your rotation, when your burst occurred, how high your burst was, etc.. Parses are excellent tools for comparing your own rotation to someone else's who is pulling a higher performance, or someone else who is pulling numbers that you would like to see yourself pull. Used correctly, parsers are great for self-improvement, and a lot of the players that ask in PFs for parser numbers are generally those that are trying to do better, not just inflate their e-peen (though those exist as well).