Why do tanks exist?

[FallenWings]

Is there a reason why tanks shouldn't be staying in their tanking stances?

To deal more rDPS at an insignificant cost to survivability.

Although there's no excuse for tanks wearing STR accessories at the moment. But tanks not using tank stances are not all using STR accessories, your example isn't the norm but an outlier of baddies being bad.

Sometimes focusing on yourself gives more to the raid than obvious 'party supporting' utilities.

[Freyyy]

Does RDM really need Swiftcast?

Well he can use it when he has no Verfire/Verstone/Impact procs to cast an extra Veraero/Verthunder without having to Jolt II. It's a DPS gain. And it can help with mobility if you have to run for more than a GCD for a mechanic.

Apocatastasis and Addle on the other hand... Are quite useless most of the time in dungeons (which is what the thread is about). So yeah, they can take Diversion. Apo will only be useful on Savage fights for magical tank busters (but far from mandatory), and Addle will only be useful on Savage fights for magical raid-wide damage.

[Galgarion]

Is there a reason why tanks shouldn't be staying in their tanking stances?

It's easy. The basic rules are: All three tanks use their tank stance during multi-mob trash pulls. During boss fights, tanks should ideally build a big threat lead then switch to dps stance and help kill the boss, weaving in defensive cooldowns as necessary. (EX: Paladins have shelltron, so it's easy for them to stay in sword oath while still negating tankbusters, and warriors can stance dance at will, so it's easy for them to inner beast when they need to.) As long as tanks are negating busters, you really have nothing to complain about since white damage won't kill anyone.

[SyzzleSpark]

So you'll let a DPS with Feint/SW/BB/LS/Invig die because you would rather be lazy?

Admittedly I don't run Diversion normally since I never see tanks take advantage of the threat lead and drop tank stance. Similarly as a WAR, I have yet to have problems with one BB combo after SE at the beginning and using my DPS rotation throughout the fight in Deliv.

RDM has strong burst especially if they lead with a full white/black magic gauge melee combo. Most RDM probably use the hardcast Veraero opener. Good RDMs are going to be on the brink of pulling hate from you as a tank to be honest. They are not going to be taking Diversion most of the time. The 5 good role skills to take are Lucid Dreaming, Swiftcast, Mana Shift, Addle, and Apocatastasis. I do not think BLM, RDM, or SMN will take Diversion since the other 5 role skills are much more useful.

Addle/Apoc/Feint in dungeons instead of Diversion...

[Galgarion]

Enmity is a shared responsibility. You don't need the tank letting people die because they don't want to manage their personal enmity, and the DPS don't need to make the tank stay longer in tank stance or use more enmity combos because they can't be bothered to hit a button as an OGCD.

Yeah. One thing I really hate compared to how things were done in older mmo's back in the day, is this modern shrill insistence that threat loss is completely the tank's fault. In the old days, good dps would push their damage while watching their threat, while bads just did whatever. Now, there's no consideration for good teamwork. DPS just wants it their way all the time. Is there even a point to them having enmity bars, since they don't care? It feels like the genre has traded in skillful play and tension for stale repetitiveness and instant gratification.

[Madepossible]

Red mage is overpowered, nerf them to the ground - best raid utility, can heal, raise but to reply to the topic: Why do tanks exists? to be bold: play another game if u don't like it. #tank4life

[Lildragora]

Tanks exist for unavoidable damage spikes and to soak passive damage. Otherwise we would have more dps that were cc or sustain dependent. We also probably wouldn't need healers without tanks.

[aqskerorokero]

the problem with tanks now in 4men is they start to "run" before learned how to "walk". tank stance and aggro combo all the time if you have whatever difficulty. 3~4 or even 10 minutes longer clear is not an issue, you spend much more time standing at retainer bell afking than a longer dungeon run. And from my personal pov: you have a hp bar, it's meant to be hit, you are on your own if you steal aggro from me.

[BluexBird]

I hope all you DPS talking about how you don't bother using your enmity management if tanks don't use their DPS stance, realize that the main deciding factor in whether a tank can successfully stay out of tank stance is the HEALER! No amount of skill and/or knowledge is going to matter as a tank, if you've got a garbage healer in your party. Cooldowns alone aren't gonna save you, so please... spare me the attitude. Use your freakin' enmity management.

[allblue1]

Things certainly have changed, and I've been playing MMO's for the last decade. First I'm considered a bad healer because I didn't have the confidence to do the cleric stance dance, to push maximum dps and max heals. Now I'm considered a bad tank because I don't want to do the tank stance dance, because I don't want the healer to have to work harder to keep me alive. Theres literally no winning for me in this game.