Why do tanks exist?

[lulunami]

Addle/Apoc/Feint in dungeons instead of Diversion...

Why even care about dungeons if we are going to go down that path?

[Maeka]

I've done several EX Roulettes as PLD, and.... I've almost never lost threat unless I, myself, did something wrong like forgot a Flash or something.

They're doing one of the following:

1). Not using Tank Stance (because of the TANK MUST MAX DPS!!!!!!!!! BS I see going on where every tank wants DPS stance)
2). Not using enough Enmity moves (again, they don't want to "waste" GCDs on stuff like RoH combos and the equivalents)
3). Not using AoE Enmity like Flash.
4). Allowing enemies to wander outside of their AoEs if they are using them and generally not caring/noticing if they do.
5). Tunnel-visioning to not notice additional adds (depending on which dungeon) spawning/arriving to pick them up, too busy DPSing.

Usually one or more of the above.

I've never seen even the best geared RDM pull hate off me yet and that's with me being at lesser gear levels. They still can't do it. As a PLD, get Shield Oath up, you throw your shield, run in, Flash, Scorn, Flash, and then drop a RoH on each mob... with a Flash or two in-between, nothing's gonna pull anything off of you.

[ADVSS]

Enmity isnt a tanks job eh? I just wish youd played 2.0 paladin, then attempt to cry about enmity now. Gear. not enough flashes and stay in tank stance if youre grabbing more adds than you can handle, alternate targets in between flashes. use cooldowns(yeah they add a small amount of enmity too)

shared responsibility may be true, but it really isnt. If healers heal, and dps deal damage, what is a tanks responsibility? to.......tank right? And what does that mean?


To the OP I suggest you level a DPS, doesnt matter which one, to see the big picture. This is why I loved the cross class system over this new one, but when you see how other tanks handle situations, better or worse than you, then youll understand. When you get tired of losing your damage buffs because theyre gingerly marking targets between each pull, youll rememver, to not be like that ever again. And when they impress you and stand in place and snap aggro off of you, youll remember, and be better than you were

[Ragnah]

Aggro is raid/party responsibility.
Idk if this counts for pugs too but when im playing DD/heal i always use my aggro reducer and i dont care about aggro racing with random df DD.
As a group its our goal to play as good as possible and help your partymembers out. We are in the same boat.
Anyone who claims DDs with high aggro generation dont have to use their aggro reducer are bad and selfish player.

[Mirateski]

I've played pld since HW, which was when I started, and I'll say this (amusing though it is that people are quoting and responding to someone who literally copypasted what I said, and ignoring me):

I play with dps who raid savage, many of whom are better geared than I am, and I have absolutely zero problems dropping tank stance on bosses. Sometimes I drop it on big pulls too but it depends how big the pull is (since I'd rather the healer not have to cry, where possible). If dps manage their enmity, even a sam can't steal aggro off me after I use one (1) RoH combo and then switch.

It's not a case of "watch the dps not use diversion, purposefully let them have the boss, then laugh as they die". It's a case of explaining that taking/using diversion will result in a faster (slightly) clear, less RoH combos from me (which I do, begrudgingly, rather than let a dps die most times), and will just make the run overall nicer. If they refuse EXPLICITY (as in, state in chat they're not gonna), I'll either let them passively rip aggro, or shirk them when the boss is on like 2% hp to prove a point, because I'm petty.

Aggro. Is. A. Shared. Responsibility.

SHARED.

OBVIOUSLY I'm gonna use RoH if I have to so the dps don't rip hate. Of COURSE I'm gonna use flash instead of another total eclipse if that's what means the mobs don't chew on the blm. Conversely, I expect that you use your own aggro skills, as a dps, in order to maximise damage uptime for BOTH. OF. US.

If I can tank v2s entirely in sword oath apart from the very first combo, with one healer dpsing 90% of the time, it's not a healer issue being in dps stance, and it's not a "hurr durr bad tank" issue since I never lose aggro. It's the dps, being lazy, because they won't slot diversion instead of feint.

Feint! In dungeons! For what, a tankbuster? In a dungeon?

Make it easier on your tank even if you think they "don't deserve it" because they're in shield oath constantly and spamming RoH. I still open with diversion on all bosses on dps, even if I know my tank is enmity combo central, because it is GOOD PRACTICE and it HELPS EVERYONE.

Don't be a jerk.

EDIT: FYI, I slot diversion/lucid/apoc/manashift/swiftcast on my rdm, and diversion/invig/goad/varies by dps for melee. And tactician/refresh/palisade/invig/varies on ranged.

You can like, you know, slot in and out mid dungeon as appropriate, yknow?

[Hen-Hen]

Aggro. Is. A. Shared. Responsibility.

SHARED.

In stormblood emnity managements skills ascended into god tier compared to what they were in HW, I never forget them any more because they're just so damn good. We have amazing party utility skills and it doesn't take a genius to work out that we have better aggro mitigation skills now because the way tanks scale compared to dps means we need them. Just like how melee dps are also now responsible for each others and tanks resources in the form of goad, casters are responsible for healers mp in the form of mana shift, and ranged dps get to kick everyone's resources into high gear with refresh and tactician.

Literally no one said tanks don't have to put effort into keeping hate any more because dps can kill their aggro easy now, what people are saying is learn how to use your skills to work together for the good of everyone in the party. What tanks are saying here is "help us to help you!"

Aggro. Is. A. Shared. Responsibility.