I do not have a "Main" I want to gear all jobs, change weekly gatings?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I specified Savage because you wrote it there. And your assertion is as much a half-truth now as then.

Uh, no I didn't. In fact, you weren't replying to me when I snagged that quote. Your post was in response to Felis, and I merely asserted your sentiment is objectively wrong. You can do everything on one character. They simply won't be geared equally. You're moving the goal post now.

Behind after a certain point into the tier the community WILL come to leave you unless you focus your gear into a specific gear type. Yes, you can raid as whatever you like when gear is barely raised from the uncapped tome's level of gear. But that gap will increase, and item levels will become unreachable without dedicating a higher and higher cumulative portion of gear to a single gear type.

They will do that regardless. If the ilvl moves to 330, PF will inevitably be set slightly higher by a portion of the community relative to the difficulty. That last portion is crucial. If Savage remained at its current difficulty level, you'll see far less parties demanding much higher than 320. Furthermore, if you join a static, you aren't going to bouncing around jobs. Very few statics allow their members to play outside their chosen role until they have everything on a consistent farm. That is solely community enforced. I signed up to play a melee DPS. While my group wouldn't have an issue if I switched to Dragoon or Monk one week, they wouldn't like if I suddenly wanted to play Black Mage no matter how geared it was. This isn't a hardcore mindset either. Statics typically prefer recruiting roles. So unless you have someone who is equally willing to switch-- to melee in my case-- you'll be playing the role you committed when you joined.

By the time 320 PFs become more ubiquitous, 4.1 will be close by or already released and everyone then has access to 330 gear. Granted, another option, be it relic armour or some such, would be a welcomed addition.

24-man raids) This is not a new issue, nor would separate caps extend it if the 24-mans actually provided benefits to everyone in the first place. Consider who among single-job players are going to do 4.1 at all when they offer inferior—not even alternatives but outright ilvl-inferior—loot to what they'd already gained last tier? They'll grab whatever twine/coats they still need and then they're done.

That issue's already come up in plenty of threads since Syrcus Tower, and the leading suggestion's been the same: give it the same ilvl as the latest weekly gear and make it upgradeable (which would affect ilvl growth rates), or make it upgradeable via capped currency in a way that essentially absorbs the difference in cost over ilvl growth (which would not).

Of course they are. The devs want raiders queuing into Ivalice as much as everyone else. The majority will because they use 4.1 to further gear alt jobs. I have seen world prog raiders in Weeping City and Dun Scaith on multiple occasions. It all depends on how many jobs each person is willing to gear. Were tomestone restrictions removed or split individually between each role, they will already have everything. Using myself as an example, I'll have Samurai and Dragoon done before 4.1 drops and will probably collect drops for my other jobs along the way. Seeing how much I actually need from Savage for Samurai, my tomes will probably be diverted to another job pretty quickly. When Ivalice releases, I'll want the gear drops from it to upgrade. Per your scenario, I will have absolutely no use for anything from Ivalice. My tanks and healers will already have full Creation gear. Why would I care about Ivalice?

They already do this through guaranteed tokens each week, allowing you to upgrade the relevant tomestone gear to its Savage equivalent. At best, people would now only run Ivalice once a week for that upgrade since the gear is worthless. Isn't that precisely where we are now: capping Creation and having "nothing else to do"? The RNG token system is another way the devs keep people running 24-mans. Removing that means less and less people will queue.

Which is all the more crucial when you only have the one pool of currency and raid loot to split among all of them. Damn right you're going to prefer what gives you multiple jobs in one. How, how is this possibly a unique or novel concern? That IS XIV in a nutshell. That is gear types. They are not equal to the number of roles except in "AF" weekly cap tiers. I think this has been the case long enough to recognize this fact as less than a Doomsday event. If you believe there are improvements possible to it to bring it more in line with the number of roles, I'm all ears, but this concern is entirely tangential.

And your proposal is to make it easier for tanks and healers to fully gear their respectively jobs well before Ivalice releases, thus giving them no reason to queue for it. How is this a solution? You subsequently mention relishing the idea, but how do you incentivize content? How do you get the tanks and healers, who no longer have any reason to queue into Ivalice more than once a week, to keep doing it? That is the problem with role currency. Just doing roulettes will guarantee two roles are fully geared in Creation before Ivalice even releases. People aren't going to do it if they aren't getting anything out of it, especially when players aren't very good in this game. The whole reason cracked clusters were added to Leveling Roulette is because SE needs people to continuously spam them so people aren't waiting 30+ minutes.

Is this complicated?
The basic idea is that if you could have a BiS main in 3 weeks before, with 4x the total time spent you could have 4 BiS gear types under what I'm proposing.... Assuming no additional changes, if you overcap by more over a given week than n times your daily roulette bonuses, it will be faster than that basic n multiplier. If not, then then time required would be greater than given by a simple multiplier.

Evidently, it is. How wouldn't it speed up my main if you guaranteed Savage drops per player each week? That means all eight of you will have gear fall into your inventory. It may not be consistently what you want, however the RNG drastically improves since you'll never go a week without getting something unless you already have it. This makes the aforementioned issues with Ivalice even worse. Fourteen weeks, with two drops per person means raiders have twenty eight chances of 340 gear for various jobs, including their preferred ones. Sure, you'll see plenty of repeats, thus gear hits the floor, but unless RNG utterly hates you, this puts a massive dent on raiders' willingness to run Ivalice or roulettes because they have better gear for even their alts.

Right. Let's unravel that a little bit. Say you main Dark Knight, but also like healers and casters. Under what you proposed, you'll have near full BiS for the following:

Dark Knight, Warrior, Paladin, White Mage, Astro, Scholar, Red Mage, Black Mage, Summoner and still could gear Monk and Samurai. Out of fifteen jobs, you'll potentially have everything you want on eleven of them. And 4.1 wouldn't have even released yet. Please, explain how this wouldn't destroy queue times? Better yet, how do you incentivize Omega Normal and Crafted gear, both of which are inferior due to cost and time efficiency (i.e., it is far more efficient to spam Ala Mhigo and purchase the better Creation gear than run Omega and obtain 320)?

And in the meantime, you actually didn't quit after gearing a single job, waiting until post-tier farm groups to bother with alts, you participated in far more raids, and ran far, far more dungeons, while Ivalice gives later-upgradable gear alternatives to your rollover savage gear so that if you're truly fanatical about BiS across all those alts you'll be running that for n pieces of loot per week... Admittedly, perhaps I'm not thinking vividly about the queues yet, but I fail to see how that broad picture has lost anything. What fixes 24-mans for BiS single-job players also fixes it for separately capped alts.

:: My only fear in this would be that the ability to grind out so much gear would inflate gear requirements to a point where casual players would be left behind. But the thing is we're already on the brink of that even when gearing just 1-2 jobs, and that same system punishes spreading that gear around. No other MMO does that. Anywhere else, what you play (and how much thereof) is what you get. What would be so wrong with that being the case for XIV?

Because the gear was relevant. 260 was an upgrade on a number of jobs since I focused on Dragoon. I stopped even looking at roulettes for months leading up to Stormblood because I had 270 on everything I cared about. I only touched the Void Ark series when friends asked me to. And I only ran it multiple times in one week when the gear was better than what I had. Afterwards? Once and only once, if that. In fact, the only reason I bothered with roulettes again later was when I decided to make another Anima. Your scenario makes the Ivalice equivalent gear obsolete. I would already have 330 Creation or 340 Omega. Therefore, I wouldn't touch Ivalice more than a handful of times just to see what it's like. I also craft, roleplay and do other things. I may have remained subbed but I wasn't spamming content after obtainimg everything I fancied. I am also an outliner in that respective. Not many want to make multiple Animas or farm PotD weapons for giggles.

Unfortunately, I very much suspect that fear would be well founded. If Creation is spammable, that makes it far more likely people restrict PFs to 330, thus forcing player to farm Creation if they want to participate while making crafted and Omega normal drops worthless. We've already been over the impact it would have on Ivalice. So... you asked what I might do for improvements? Honestly, I want to see what Eureka brings. Relic armour has potential as an alternative gear method that wouldn't be too fast but allow people to focus on something throughout the week. There also needs to be more content in general. And less of the faceroll variety. Another possibility is Mythic+. At least as a concept. I wouldn't want it identical to WoW, but I do like the precise of something harder we work towards.

[FoxyAreku]

There isn't a piece of content in the game you can't do with full crafted gear and/or lakshmi accessories, and only like two fights you (probably) can't do with full verity.

Just because you can't be 100% overgeared and optimal on every class doesn't mean you are at all hampered from playing what you want if you are good at it.

[Snow_Princess]

You do realize if they uncapped the highest level tomes for gear, then you would get 10 tomes per dungeon and gear would be double the costright? thats exactly what they did with yellow scrips.

You think you are complaining now about having to do dungeons repeatedly? Just see how much you would hate it then lol

TLDR: if you think the amount of tomes you'd get from roulettes/dungeons would stay the same if they uncapped it, you are oh so very wrong.

Yellow script problems is because they do not understand crafting/gathering and how to build a healthy economy. This was always a problem since 2.0, and the comments of the specialist system only proves it further. It was stated they made the specialist system so hardcore crafters do not dominate as much. They really need to research better because any hardcore crafter has at least 1 other character, and I discovered a few duel accounts. This causes the hardcore crafters to be a more of an advantage since now it is easier to dominate the market with 2-3 characters vs 1. If someone wanted to, a single person can control the economy completely, and I am just guessing no one does, is because it takes more effort then someone wants to take, vs just spamming different crafts to have a high yield gil anyway. The only reason I do not do it is purely on morel grounds. Basically the system only hurts the midcore crafters, the kind that sorta hard core crafts, but can't put in the effort to level alts, where the casual crafters would unlikely make investments to craft on the equivalent of 70-2 star (as of this posting) or 60-4 star during 3.4.

Also the problem with yellow scripts is not only does it require an insane amount of grind, but melding 290 gear is not only cheaper, faster, but also more optimal as well. There is NO REASON to go for yellow scripts other then to glam. It would be no different then making salavge deltascape rewards 320 (so crafted outperforms it due to melding) [have to ignore the existence of the 330 tome gear, since this is only way to translate what happened to yellows to non-crafters since stats don't work the same.]

My thoughts on it are still rather up in the air. To be honest, when I start into a large design idea, it rarely tries to achieve just the one thing I originally intended—a bad habit. For instance, what I have so far, something of a "Prestige" system, not only includes categorical allocations to gate the "any given" repository of gear while allowing equitable (not just equal or shared) gating for any other repository, but it also adjusts how gear is rewarded and what all awards progress towards it (e.g. achievements, challenge modes, and with adjustments for various forms of scaling, and so forth to spice up what essentially amounts to tome-grinding, in order to make the increased hours of grinding possible feel less grindy).

I was hoping for more ideas to work it in my own, ill take a while since I am busy with other things, but we will see.

Uh, no I didn't. In fact, you weren't replying to me when I snagged that quote. Your post was in response to Felis, and I merely asserted your sentiment is objectively wrong. You can do everything on one character. They simply won't be geared equally. You're moving the goal post now.

Incorrect, if you are going to run on the premise that you can play all jobs on one character, then they all need equal access. The current system does not allow that, and the easier they make exp gain, the more people this will bother. If you have to make an alt to have equal access, it violates the advertised premise. Also the forumla tends to go, even before you have 330 now in all slots they release a new 450 cap, so it makes you feel you are always behind, you can only gear 1 job, it should not be locking you in 1 job. You keep running on the fear that whatever new system people propose will break the game too much. How is allowing me gear more then one job in current ilevel ruin anything? What if balance changes or changes to the job (currently I dislike blm, the job I used to sink gear in first in HW) so now I am at a standstill hording everything because I do not know what to invest that kind of time gating into. This is not fair to me. Did you ever think salavge statics does not tend to have people change jobs because of the gear time gates? Though I did meet a salavge SAM, having 2-340 gear, leveling nin for his static, because he said they would benefit from NIN more and have 2 or 3 340s for that as well. Their sam also had a 330 weapon.

OHHHHHHHHHH!!! also.. if the premise is making time gates to prevent hard cores having too much more then causal, right now casual is cap at pretty much i320, having maybe 1-4 330 depending what they invest in. The person I met above easily eclipses a "casual" so I find that argument not founded at this point.

As much as it sucks, this has been the best it's ever been. You have a lot of options to gear up right now.

1) Creation tomes. (You don't need every single piece of creation gear. Hell, some pieces are a downgrade for certain classes.)
2) Omega weekly gear.
3) Verity tomes.
4) Trial accessories / Weapons.


As someone who enjoys playing different classes, life's pretty good right now.

It is the same as HW, direct copy/paste from HW may of been different in 2.0, since I was more a crafter then and really didn't care. Regardless you cannot say "it is the best it has ever been" when it is the same, and objectively worse when updated diadem came out late 2.0. It also lacks the 24 main raid weekly gear as well. So there is 2 less options, 3 if you count lacking deep dungeon equivalent weapons. So right now, you have less options then what we had in HW.

[Shurrikhan]

Uh, no I didn't. In fact, you weren't replying to me when I snagged that quote. Your post was in response to Felis, and I merely asserted your sentiment is objectively wrong. You can do everything on one character. They simply won't be geared equally. You're moving the goal post now.

Any roles/jobs/classes/gear types other than your primary... are alts. The term is not solely applied to separate characters. Yet by placing them on one character in this game, each is allotted fewer opportunities. In other words, the game forces you, if you want optimal gearing, to put each gear type on a separate character, despite holding the selling point of all in one.

The issue is you absolutely can't do everything on one character. To have the same freedom as in other MMOs, then like any other MMO, you must place every gear type on a separate character. It's counter-intuitive.

But you can. Nothing stopped me from queuing into Experts all throughout Creator on Warrior and White Mage. I even brought them into Savage before either was BiS.

(Here's where I wonder how being merely able to bring a job into some floor of Savage, short of the BiS that Savage is required for, and what Expert roulette has to do with that.)

I specified Savage because you wrote it there. And your assertion is as much a half-truth now as then. You do NOT have indefinite access to Savage as an alt (unless running with friends who will accept below average ilvls).

1. No, I have not moved the goal post. Apparently I've used a different definition of "doing everything". To me that includes reaching BiS in a given tier, and being able to participate in ALL content, regardless of its typical community-driven ilvl requirements. You seem to be using it in a sense of being able to participate to some degree in all forms of content. From the way I was looking at it, you use of the absolute to be blantantly overselling what is possible across alts belonging to the same character, to a point of factual error. I hadn't thought of the term in a softer sense.

They will do that regardless. If the ilvl moves to 330, PF will inevitably be set slightly higher by a portion of the community relative to the difficulty. That last portion is crucial. If Savage remained at its current difficulty level, you'll see far less parties demanding much higher than 320. Furthermore, if you join a static, you aren't going to bouncing around jobs. Very few statics allow their members to play outside their chosen role until they have everything on a consistent farm. That is solely community enforced. I signed up to play a melee DPS. While my group wouldn't have an issue if I switched to Dragoon or Monk one week, they wouldn't like if I suddenly wanted to play Black Mage no matter how geared it was. This isn't a hardcore mindset either. Statics typically prefer recruiting roles. So unless you have someone who is equally willing to switch-- to melee in my case-- you'll be playing the role you committed when you joined.

By the time 320 PFs become more ubiquitous, 4.1 will be close by or already released and everyone then has access to 330 gear. Granted, another option, be it relic armour or some such, would be a welcomed addition.

2. The information on static play is irrelevant. Chances are if you're gearing multiple jobs in order to access content (e.g. to increase the possibility of being able to sub for a group), you're not in one, and probably cannot join one—not because you lack the time to raid at all, but because your schedule is inconsistent. Yet your chances go from increased to next to null by doing so as the tier progresses, simply due to the naturally increasing ilvl expectations. Though you can fill more slots, your gear levels are growing slower than anyone else, because there is no reward for the additional time spent, even where it would NOT accelerate vertical progression.

Moreover what does the preference of your static have to do with what you would like to do, likely with any number of other players, given more time and accessibility (such as right now by simply playing two characters)?

How wouldn't it speed up my main if you guaranteed Savage drops per player each week?

(?) I have never said to guarantee Savage drops per player each week. Is this an iteration of what I've mentioned that you're extrapolated into this result? Or are you thinking of another poster? I really can't speak on their behalf.

This makes the aforementioned issues with Ivalice even worse.

While I can't speak to the supposed rates or guarantees of raid loot acquisition, since what you're assuming to be my idea is either not mine or mis-extrapolated, I did just say that should alts on the same character be given the same degree of gearing freedom as alts on separate characters, catch-up loot semi-tiers ought then to stand as alternatives to the former tier's BiS line-up. Short of that you're also going to continue to run into the issues of single-gear-type players already in BiS having zero use for the 24-man content. Thereby it acts as a catch-up mechanic not just for those who play more than one gear type, but for those with less time. The risk: you now have more choices at a given ilvl. The horror.

Right. Let's unravel that a little bit. Say you main Dark Knight, but also like healers and casters. Under what you proposed, you'll have near full BiS for the following:

Dark Knight, Warrior, Paladin, White Mage, Astro, Scholar, Red Mage, Black Mage, Summoner and still could gear Monk and Samurai. Out of fifteen jobs, you'll potentially have everything you want on eleven of them. And 4.1 wouldn't have even released yet. Please, explain how this wouldn't destroy queue times? Better yet, how do you incentivize Omega Normal and Crafted gear, both of which are inferior due to cost and time efficiency (i.e., it is far more efficient to spam Ala Mhigo and purchase the better Creation gear than run Omega and obtain 320)?

Right. Let's "unravel" this:

Yes, four gear types encompasses anywhere from 6 to 11 jobs.... Is there a paradox I'm missing?...
And you can take 4x the time to do that across 4 characters, covering 6 to 11 jobs at full gearing potential... right now. You just can't do it on one character. So why the fear-mongering over the possibility of XIV's one unique convenience no longer being a detriment? That is the only change I'm suggesting. People won't suddenly sprout additional hands and unemployment checks and botting tools by which to grind Creation tomes across every gear type any more than anyone can currently do so by using separate characters (and with the addition of as many daily roulettes bonuses as they have characters, and therefore gear types, whereas the others get it only for the first gear type allotted towards). (Continued below.)

Because the gear was relevant. 260 was an upgrade on a number of jobs since I focused on Dragoon, Ninja and Dark Knight. I stopped even looking at roulettes for months leading up to Stormblood because I had 270 on everything I cared about. I only touched the Void Ark series when friends asked me to. And I only ran it multiple times in one week when the gear was better than what I had. Afterwards? Once and only once, if that.

Wait... so you're fighting me on the idea that 24-man loot ought to be worthwhile even for raiders (whereas it is currently a catch up mechanic for altaholics and returnees, generally ignored by BiS raiders) because... why?
Let's review this.

• I said that players should have as much freedom to gear up gear types on one character as across multiple. No more, no less. I've never said anything about guaranteeing drops. I've never said anything about gearing by-job. I believe I have been very clear in this respect.
• I haven't miraculously given players more time to play the game, or thereby pursue those goals on one character than across multiple at this time.
• I haven't suddenly made people any more or less altaholic.
• I've said that for this to work, catch-up loot like that of 24-mans (or by extension normal-mode raids) would have to be a legitimate alternatives, not just a stop-over measure meant to be replaced. That and that alone accelerates gearing across x weeks from the release of a casual raid.

The effects, then, would occur only for those players who would be able to gear up all alts they cared about to BiS over the course of a tier in the present system. Like yourself. They and they alone would now "finish" the tier sooner, since the time spent gearing their alts could be done over a shorter span of time, similarly to if they had done so on separate characters, but with 525 fewer inventory slots per additional gear type placed on the same character. Inversely, they would also have a potential reason, depending on itemization, to do casual raids that would otherwise be beneath them.

Unfortunately, I very much suspect that fear would be well founded. If Creation is spammable, that makes it far more likely people restrict PFs to 330, thus forcing people to farm Creation if they want to participate while making crafted and Omega normal drops worthless. We've already been over the impact it would have on Ivalice.

But there has been no change to the rate at which Creation is spammable. No change. None. It's 450 per week (per gear type, but without having to be "per character"). Same as ever. Again, I have never said to remove the cap. This would only be an issue if PFs were already assuming that "hey, maybe someone wants to play on another job they haven't had the opportunity to gear up yet due to weekly caps." But they don't. PFs already assume that the majority of people will be placing that gear on a single dedicated gear type. Not a role, not a job—a gear type, however broadly it may apply. And why shouldn't they? If your time is spent across more than a single receptacle for its rewards, you're wasting time insofar as vertical progression. I am simply asking for the same freedom to waste my time or play what I want to the fullest extent given sufficient time that I can enjoy in any other MMO, across all jobs (gear types) available, even if I decide to use the unique feature of XIV.

So... you asked what I might do for improvements? Honestly, I want to see what Eureka brings. Relic armour has potential as an alternative gear method that wouldn't be too fast but allow people to focus on something throughout the week. There also needs to be more content in general. And less of the faceroll variety. Another possibility is Mythic+. At least as a concept. I wouldn't want it identical to WoW, but I do like the precise of something harder we work towards.

Yeah, I'm hoping we'll see something to throw some new ideas into the work with Eureka. Not expecting, but definitely hoping. Relic armor's been an idea that some people here have been able to make attractive to me, and I look forward to seeing its possibilities expounded upon. In fact, I think for a system that embraces the freedom of gearing within one character that I'm hoping for to really click, something like this will probably be necessary. Absolutely agreed that I'd like to see less faceroll reskins given to us as "content". Something akin to Mythic+ I think could be a hugely time-efficient development for the game. Blizzard has had its share of less efficient developments, but they far and way more efficient on average than what we've seen here in Diadem, or the infamous LoV, be it via Mythic+, the Artifact Power system and how it interacts more consistently with their version of FATEs and virtually any content, Warsong Gultch, Arathi Basin, Alterac Valley, Timewalker dungeons... There's a lot of good example work on what can both be exciting when new AND last due to more than just short-term, arbitrary-count needs.

[uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu]

Incorrect, if you are going to run on the premise that you can play all jobs on one character, then they all need equal access.

This says it all. Apparently since we can have 5 college degrees, we should get paid 5x and have the benefits of everything all in one.
Heck, why bother make 15 jobs and roles. Let's go further. Put all skills under 1 character, no need for jobs or gears.

[Snow_Princess]

This says it all. Apparently since we can have 5 college degrees, we should get paid 5x and have the benefits of everything all in one.
Heck, why bother make 15 jobs and roles. Let's go further. Put all skills under 1 character, no need for jobs or gears.

This post is off the point discussion completely, the only thing this explains is you do not want to have a meaningful discussion. We are here to suggest improvements to the game, not bite another poster's head off because you dislike change.

[Shurrikhan]

This says it all. Apparently since we can have 5 college degrees, we should get paid 5x and have the benefits of everything all in one.
Heck, why bother make 15 jobs and roles. Let's go further. Put all skills under 1 character, no need for jobs or gears.

Oh boy...

Extending your metaphor, you're not getting paid five times the hourly wages; you're being permitted to work 5 times the hours. Life-metaphor-wise, it's not a very desirable arrangement.
Would you like to work 200 hours per week, sir? There are only 168 in a week, you say, sir? I'm sure you're mistaken, sir.

Our skills ARE all on one character.
Jobs are partitions thereof.
Nor would that directly have anything to do with gear.
Rabbits.

[Rita1989]

I haven't read through this thread but I do feel like these systems were taken from games that only have one job and applied to ffxiv that supposedly encourages you to have one character but at the same time punishes you for doing so.

On top of that leveling alts is a painful process due to the MSQ

Introducing a better system that fits FFXIV would be better for everyone.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

1. No, I have not moved the goal post. Apparently I've used a different definition of "doing everything". To me that includes reaching BiS in a given tier, and being able to participate in ALL content, regardless of its typical community-driven ilvl requirements. You seem to be using it in a sense of being able to participate to some degree in all forms of content. From the way I was looking at it, you use of the absolute to be blantantly overselling what is possible across alts belonging to the same character, to a point of factual error. I hadn't thought of the term in a softer sense.

I haven't oversold anything. You can do all content on every job. If PFs start restricting beyond your present ilvl level on your preferred job, what prevents you from making your own PF? Does the game encourage focusing on a particular role? Absolutely. The game, however, does not prevent you from playing alt jobs. That is the distinction I wanted to make. Perhaps it could have been made clearer.

I have never said to guarantee Savage drops per player each week. Is this an iteration of what I've mentioned that you're extrapolated into this result? Or are you thinking of another poster? I really can't speak on their behalf.

It may have been Princess come to think of it. My apologizes if it were and I fused your stance and hers.

I did just say that should alts on the same character be given the same degree of gearing freedom as alts on separate characters, casual loot tiers ought then to stand as alternatives to the former tier's BiS line-up. Short of that you're also going to continue to run into the issues of single-gear-type players already in BiS having zero use for the 24-man content. Thereby it acts as a catch-up mechanic not just for those who play more than one gear type, but for those with less time. The risk: you now have more choices at a given ilvl. The horror.

The average player doesn't have multiple characters for raiding. Yes, you can exploit this loophole, but only a small minority do. For a comparison example, when people mentioned retainer and inventory space, Yoshida specifically stated the vast majority only use two retainers, which is why they didn't prioritize it for such a long time. Granted, there is a cost involved, however the point remains. If few people exploit the loophole, whether due to laziness, money or contentment, it's existence is irrelevant. So why would people grind on a single character if they won't level a separate? Accessibility. They don't have to slog through the lengthily MSQ and remind themselves to log into it consistently. You aren't wrong in the sense they could... but they haven't. On the other hand, people were grinding Verity week one.

I've said that for this to work, catch-up loot like that of 24-mans (or by extension normal-mode raids) would have to be a legitimate alternatives, not just a stop-over measure meant to be replaced. That and that alone accelerates gearing across x weeks from the release of a casual raid.

How is it an alternative when it's the same ilvl everyone has already been grinding for nearly four months? You acknowledge upwards of eleven jobs could be fully geared before 4.1 releases, yes? They would be ilvl 330, the same ilvl Ivalice will drop. Therefore, it's no longer an alternative because everyone will already have said ilvl. Instead, people only run it for the tomestone upgrade not the loot.

But there has been no change to the rate at which Creation is spammable. No change. None. It's 450 per week (per gear type, but without having to be "per character"). Same as ever. Again, I have never said to remove the cap. This would only be an issue if PFs were already assuming that "hey, maybe someone wants to play on another job they haven't had the opportunity to gear up yet due to weekly caps." But they don't. PFs already assume that the majority of people will be placing that gear on a single dedicated gear type. Not a role, not a job—a gear type, however broadly it may apply. And why shouldn't they? If your time is spent across more than a single receptacle for its rewards, you're wasting time insofar as vertical progression. I am simply asking for the same freedom to waste my time or play what I want to the fullest extent given sufficient time that I can enjoy in any other MMO, across all jobs (gear types) available, even if I decide to use the unique feature of XIV.

That makes it spammable, albeit indirectly. Currently, I have to continuously run dungeons if I want Cassandra to have full tomestone gear on multiple jobs. I'll continue to do this well into 4.1 unless I level a separate character. As I haven't and probably won't, at least not for a long while, I'll queue into content consistently enough. With your proposal, I wouldn't since by 4.1, I'll have all the jobs I care about finished. As for PFs. People who set ilvls that high, do so because they want to exclude players. They aren't going to be courtesy and assume you may want to play something else. They'll want you on your main. People who keep it more averaged out or don't set one at all would also take you right now at 315-320. And will continue to do so months later. A12S PFs typically stayed around 260 once 3.5 released, which was easily obtainable for even casual players.

Basically, my perspective on the whole issue is the devs haven't made any adjustments because not enough people have either exploited their restrictions or they don't have an issue with them. Keep in mind, forums make up a very small portion of any game's community. It's baffling just how many people don't even check the lodestone, let alone post on the forums. I'll admit though, there should be some sort of poll or questionnaire given to players who unsub. That might help give the devs ideas if certain systems aren't working.

Regardless, my defense of the system doesn't mean I like it. Frankly, I'm indifferent. I haven't had problems joining PFs or obtaining enough gear on Cassie for it to ever present an issue. That being said, I won't argue it doesn't get repetitive.

[Paladinleeds]

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Yep, I read the post you quoted and was like "Eh?" - I mean I can be known for being ridiculous at times... but still.

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Yeah, I'm not averse to it myself, because I can understand why it would be a problem for some. However I HOPE that if they do do it, they do it in a way that isn't simply "queue as DPS, get DPS tomestones". I sometimes will queue as DPS when I don't fancy the responsibilities of tanking/healing in that particular run, but I would still prefer to gear my tank/healer as I will NOT do Extreme content etc as a DPS.