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  1. #11
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,860
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor View Post
    You never specifically mentioned Savage, thus I answered both it and regular content can be done on any job.
    I specified Savage because you wrote it there. And your assertion is as much a half-truth now as then. Behind after a certain point into the tier the community WILL come to leave you unless you focus your gear into a specific gear type. Yes, you can raid as whatever you like when gear is barely raised from the uncapped tome's level of gear. But that gap will increase, and item levels will become unreachable without dedicating a higher and higher cumulative portion of gear to a single gear type. You do NOT have indefinite access to Savage as an alt (unless running with friends who will accept below average ilvls). That is simple fact. Look at the item levels near the end of any given tier. They are often high enough for even mostly main-only characters to be unable to continue waiting on BiS raid drops, forcing them to spend currency to meet the requests of a PF rather than saving it for a secondary's BiS currency gear, to continue to join PFs. Without any raid drops, many PFs will assume the ilvl of all crafted slots + the entirety of your weekly-capped currency (assuming weapon or chest/legs first) have been spent on a single gear type just to join. This makes it difficult to maintain permissible gear levels for those who are taken as one type one week and another the next (i.e. static-less players who have time enough to grind for gear, but not time enough in exact consistent overlap with a specific 7 other players).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor View Post
    And by doing that, who is queuing into the 24 Man raid come 4.1?
    (24-man raids) This is not a new issue, nor would separate caps extend it if the 24-mans actually provided benefits to everyone in the first place. Consider who among single-job players are going to do 4.1 at all when they offer inferior—not even alternatives but outright ilvl-inferior—loot to what they'd already gained last tier? They'll grab whatever twine/coats they still need and then they're done.

    That issue's already come up in plenty of threads since Syrcus Tower, and the leading suggestion's been the same: give it the same ilvl as the latest weekly gear and make it upgradeable (which would affect ilvl growth rates), or make it upgradeable via capped currency in a way that essentially absorbs the difference in cost over ilvl growth (which would not).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor View Post
    A separate currency for each role also benefits tanks and healers significantly more as they share gear whereas DPS are split into four categories. Furthermore, how wouldn't this speed up the process substantially? I cap without even intending to on Wednesday because of raid.
    Which is all the more crucial when you only have the one pool of currency and raid loot to split among all of them. Damn right you're going to prefer what gives you multiple jobs in one. How, how is this possibly a unique or novel concern? That IS XIV in a nutshell. That is gear types. They are not equal to the number of roles except in "AF" weekly cap tiers. I think this has been the case long enough to recognize this fact as less than a Doomsday event. If you believe there are improvements possible to it to bring it more in line with the number of roles, I'm all ears, but this concern is entirely tangential.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor View Post
    Furthermore, how wouldn't this speed up the process substantially? I cap without even intending to on Wednesday because of raid. That means I have five days to cap on tanks, heals and whatever else I fancy-- roles that normally only receive tomestone gear later are now apart of my weekly (bi-weekly) ritual. Adding to the fact I would also be guaranteed loot from Savage each week, plus the additional pages and possibly upgrade items and I can assure you I won't only have my tanks and heals at max ilvl, they'll be full BiS in three months.
    I never said it wouldn't speed up the process of gearing alts substantially. I relish the idea. I said it wouldn't speed up the process of gearing your MAIN. What you could do for your main now, with n (number of gear types you care to gear) multiples of time you could do for the rest. Is this complicated? The basic idea is that if you could have a BiS main in 3 weeks before, with 4x the total time spent you could have 4 BiS gear types under what I'm proposing.... Assuming no additional changes, if you overcap by more over a given week than n times your daily roulette bonuses, it will be faster than that basic n multiplier. If not, then then time required would be greater than given by a simple multiplier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor View Post
    Now 4.1 rolls around and I have seven jobs fully geared; they are the only jobs I care to play. That means I have no incentive to run roulettes anymore, no incentive to keep killing Omega barring speed kills and the like and no incentive to run Ivalice.
    And in the meantime, you actually didn't quit after gearing a single job, waiting until post-tier farm groups to bother with alts, you participated in far more raids, and ran far, far more dungeons, while Ivalice gives later-upgradable gear alternatives to your rollover savage gear so that if you're truly fanatical about BiS across all those alts you'll be running that for n pieces of loot per week... Admittedly, perhaps I'm not thinking vividly about the queues yet, but I fail to see how that broad picture has lost anything. What fixes 24-mans for BiS single-job players also fixes it for separately capped alts.

    :: My only fear in this would be that the ability to grind out so much gear would inflate gear requirements to a point where casual players would be left behind. But the thing is we're already on the brink of that even when gearing just 1-2 jobs, and that same system punishes spreading that gear around. No other MMO does that. Anywhere else, what you play (and how much thereof) is what you get. What would be so wrong with that being the case for XIV?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor View Post
    The fact you can get around these limitations on a separate character is irrelevant when only hardcore raiders do it. Put simply, the devs don't care because the amount of people willing to exploit that loophole are so few, it doesn't upset their system.
    If the amount of people willing to take advantage of their full gearing opportunities are too few to be concerned with them, why would it suddenly be a new and rampant concern that... a few people are willing to take advantage of their full gearing opportunities, minus the 1000-character edit, so to speak? The two situations are identical, save that it's costing less data on SE's end and more convenient on our end (unless needing that extra inventory space).
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    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 08-05-2017 at 09:40 AM.