I do not have a "Main" I want to gear all jobs, change weekly gatings?

[SaitoHikari]

Since I'm a genius here a suggestion to remove tome cap, allow to gear multiple jobs at once without allowing anyone to completely gear up in one week:

1. Tomes have no cap.
2. Omega normal loot is uncapped except for weapon. Weapon item will go uncapped after 7 weeks.
3. No change to Savage Loot? (not sure here)
4. Can only buy piece of Caster, melee, tank and Heal piece per week. Same for Omega normal loot.

Hmm, considering this, here's another compromise pulled out of my ass in mere minutes.

1) Weekly tomes are now uncapped.
2) Omega normal loot is now uncapped, and CAN BE UPGRADED via Savage drops. The exception to the uncapped rule being the item used to purchase the weapon. The crystalloid now drops from all four instances, but at the same time, the amount needed to purchase a weapon is increased from 7 to 20. (You now only need 5 weeks to purchase a weapon as opposed to 7 weeks, assuming you run all four instances. Those that are able to clear Savage floor 4 are rewarded with the option of cutting the amount of weeks needed via additional crystalloids as a loot option. The distribution adjustment solves the problem of people having zero incentive to run the normal versions of 1-3 after obtaining crafted/tomestone/savage gear.)

3) The actual purchasing of tomestone gear is now capped based on role. Tomestone shop is now split into Tank/Vitality classes, DPS/Strength classes, DPS/Agility classes, Intelligence/Caster classes, and Mind/Healer classes, instead of DoW I/DoW II/Caster. One piece per week can be purchased from each category.
(Originally, I was going to go Tank/Melee DPS/Ranged DPS/Healer, but realized Ninjas would have awkward gearing because even though they're melee, they share Agility accessories and belts with Bard and Machinist.)

4) A new item is introduced into the tomestone shop under the Other option. This item is capped at 1 purchase per week, and costs 350 tomestones. This item allows you to convert one secondary stat to a different secondary stat on tomestone gear.

5) Savage loot drops are altered. In addition to their regular gear drops that are still capped (although with an alteration, see part 6 below), each Savage floor now drops an additional item that upgrades the Omega normal loot to their powered up counterparts. The Savage book exchange shop is also adjusted (see part 7 below).
- Floor 1 now drops 2 accessories directly, 1 upgrade material for normal -> savage version accessories, 1 upgrade material for tomestone accessories, 1 stat converter for savage equipment, and the usual 1 book for everyone
- Floor 2 now drops 2 hat/gloves/boots directly, 1 upgrade material for normal -> savage version of hat/gloves/boots, 1 upgrade material for tomestone hat/gloves/boots, 1 stat converter for savage equipment, and the usual 1 book for everyone
- Floor 3 now drops 2 trousers/body armor directly, 1 upgrade material for normal -> savage version trousers/body armor, 1 upgrade material for tomestone trousers/body armor, 1 stat converter for savage equipment, and the usual 1 book for everyone (body armor was moved from floor 4 to 3)
- Floor 4 now drops 2 weapons directly, 1 upgrade material for tomestone weapons, 1 stat converter for savage equipment, 4 additional crystalloids, and the usual 1 book for everyone

6) Adding to the above, the restriction on having all 8 players in a party for the week being required to not have cleared for the week in order to get 2 chests is lifted, although the restriction on only being able to roll on loot for one clear per week is still there - I don't even know why the former is still a thing, when all it achieves is making the raid scene inaccessible to new players in a highly unnatural way by forcing raiders into cliques, and players that have already cleared for the week already can't roll on loot from subsequent runs anyway. It's not like there's even anything that can be traded in there that makes abusing with alt characters even worth it.

7) The Savage equipment exchange shop is changed. Instead of now exchanging books for equipment directly, you now exchange the books for the item that upgrades the normal versions of the gear, and go to a different shop to upgrade. You can also exchange books for the item that changes one of the secondary stats for any savage version gear (2 books for each type).

[Snow_Princess]

You say people are getting tired of artificial extension of old content due to gating. When you fail to realize something: content becomes old the week of the patch day, if not the same day as the patch.

Content that takes months to make is old content faster then the content that can be made. You literally cannot make content fast enough for an MMO to try to go with a gateless system. Every single MMO developer in the world will tell you that.

It does not take months to recycle content. It would only last a day because they do not give content. How come other MNOs do not gate/ recycle content to this degree?

A lot of gear is palette swamping
A lot of item icons are recycled

A lot of MNOs? are 1 job per character, and it does not take forever to level a new one to max level access, here it is very hard because of MSQ gating, so if they are going to advertise all jobs on 1 character, this kind of gating they do currently is counterproductive to it.

I understand they need some kind of time gating, but they should change it so it is not one job to gear along with changing from copy/paste content.

[technole]

I think he said that they needed the tech to detect what you have and If I'm not wrong they should have it now

edit: (I always thought that the T2 savage titles should've been locked behind either synched or min ilvl synched)

I was proud of my savage titles even if we did some of them at i130 instead of i110 at the time. But like any MMO, achievements have a shelf-life and after awhile you just have to move on. At the end of Creator Savage we had nothing to do as a static so we went back to do some of them at min ilvl for the fun of it and was succesful, and to prepare us for Deltascape. The mechanics practice was indeed worth it.

You have people today that have Gobwalker mounts that couldn't even handle Gordias Savage in the day. But that was over two years ago, and the rare hip mount now is Alte Roite from O4S. So we just keep up.

[Shurrikhan]

But you can. Nothing stopped me from queuing into Experts all throughout Creator on Warrior and White Mage. I even brought them into Savage before either was BiS. In fact, my first A9S on WHM, I didn't have any accuracy melds. You can play every job. They just aren't geared as quickly as your main(s) will be.

What does Expert roulette possibly have to do with Savage raiding? What? How? What?

Believe me, I know that you can get into most pieces of content, until a certain level of progression. I was a sub raider throughout HW, and as such I kept Bard, Ninja, Monk, and Dragoon all just high enough to be accepted into sub positions for Savage. But that is a far cry from the item levels available to somehow who can play a single job alone, and comes at far greater cost in materia. And it frequently forced me to bankrupt myself on crafter gear for an extra couple ilvl.

The point is if you place those jobs on separate characters, then they ARE gearable just as quickly as your main. If you place them, however, on the same character as the game suggests, then you cannot—you are shooting yourself in the foot. Great if it only took off your pinky toe; you still shot yourself.

So why would you make something like the ability to play all jobs on one character a selling point of a game wherein you are actually going to disadvantage exactly that?

Because the system's core intent is to keep incentivizing content. Allowing infinite progression means you will inevitably reach the point where you'll have obtained everything you fancy, thus have no further reason to queue. This is made significantly easier without restrictions and runs the risk players will spam content early on only to abandon it that much faster. To use myself as an example as I regularly play all roles.

I have NEVER said to remove gating. I said it's gating the wrong thing. The only way what you're saying would at all apply is if every savage raider felt the need to get BiS for all his jobs, thereby staying subbed longer because he can only gear one at a time.

If the goal is to prevent someone from having enough ilvl on ANY given job (meaning that one must assume he is spending everything on the same job for maximum vertical gains) to blow through content, "finish" the game, and unsub, then you need only... gate the ilvl of ANY given job, not to gate all, haphazardly, through the same shared resource pool. Allowing, say, every single gear type to take its own 450 Creator's worth of gear-exchange loot and its two raid drops per week would not make any difference whatsoever to how quickly people can gear their way through content, "finish" the game, and unsub. None. It would simply give the exact same freedom that one has if they'd put every gear type on a separate character (e.g. did this for 7 in total).

Now, I'm not saying we need to be able to clear each Savage 7 times and harvest 3150 Creator tomestones per week. I'm just saying that playing on separate characters shouldn't be so advantaged compared to playing with all jobs on one character. It makes no sense to do so.

[Snow_Princess]

What does Expert roulette possibly have to do with Savage raiding? What? How? What?

Believe me, I know that you can get into most pieces of content, until a certain level of progression. I was a sub raider throughout HW, and as such I kept Bard, Ninja, Monk, andDragoon all just high enough to be accepted into sub positions for Savage. But that is a far cry from the item levels available to somehow who can play a single job alone, and comes at far greater cost in materia. And it frequently forced me to bankrupt myself on crafter gear for an extra couple ilvl.

The point is if you place those jobs on separate characters, then they ARE gearable just as quickly as your main. If you place them, however, on the same character as the game suggests, then you cannot—you are shooting yourself in the foot. Great if it only took off your pinky toe; you still shot yourself.

So why would you make something like the ability to play all jobs on one character a selling point of a game wherein you are actually going to disadvantage exactly that?



I have NEVER said to remove gating. I said it's gating the wrong thing. The only way what you're saying would at all apply is if every savage raider felt the need to get BiS for all his jobs, thereby staying subbed longer because he can only gear one at a time.

If the goal is to prevent someone from having enough ilvl on ANY given job (meaning that one must assume he is spending everything on the same job for maximum vertical gains) to blow through content, "finish" the game, and unsub, then you need only... gate the ilvl of ANY given job, not to gate all, haphazardly, through the same shared resource pool. Allowing, say, every single gear type to take its own 450 Creator's worth of gear-exchange loot and its two raid drops per week would not make any difference whatsoever to how quickly people can gear their way through content, "finish" the game, and unsub. None. It would simply give the exact same freedom that one has if they'd put every gear type on a separate character (e.g. did this for 7 in total).

Now, I'm not saying we need to be able to clear each Savage 7 times and harvest 3150 Creator tomestones per week. I'm just saying that playing on separate characters shouldn't be so advantaged compared to playing with all jobs on one character. It makes no sense to do so.

I'm thinking of working on a gear progression model and just showing that to people, since it seems people are simply not understanding what the main point is from not liking change. Need some ideas though, you got any?

[Umbeliel]

The number of people Snow has to struggle against for the simple idea that she wants to be able to play more than one job and make meaningful progression on it is mind boggling.

Is the fact that I literally can not just decide to switch to Black Mage one day as my main without investing/sacrificing at least three weeks of tomestones just flying over heads or something? Even if I did, I would be 3 weeks behind, because I already spent on my Warrior. As is, because of the gate, if I wanted to work on black mage AFTER Warrior, assuming I got only my BiS bought stuff + weapon, I wouldn't even be able to CONSIDER buying things for black mage for another ~8 weeks or so at best. Just in time for 4.1 to come out and make it irrelevant.

Like... we're not asking for a lot here. We want to have the option to commit to more than one class if I have the time and resources to do so. The specifics of how it's actually achieved isn't important, just the point of being able to play and progress on more than one class at something other than a snail's pace.

[jameseoakes]

Like... we're not asking for a lot here. We want to have the option to commit to more than one class if I have the time and resources to do so. The specifics of how it's actually achieved isn't important, just the point of being able to play and progress on more than one class at something other than a snail's pace.

Which you can be done easily with verity or crafted gear

[Miste]

Hmmm yeah to be fair outside of savage you don't need higher than i310 gear; so technically with verity you can gear all jobs....but I mean I would be neutral if they made it so you can gear more jobs...it's not like tomestones alone give you the best gear since you need to do savage for that or wait 6 months till they add upgrade items to the 24 mans/hunts or w/e

I didn't read whole thread so idk if someone thought of this but...

Maybe...they could do something like 3 versions of the tomes IE: Allagan Tomestones of Creation (DPS), Allagan Tomestones of Creation (Healer), and Allagan Tomestones of Creation (Tank)

Therefore you can gear one of each role. One DPS, one tank, and one healer of your choosing. Each tomestone will still have the 450 cap and can only be spent on the role the tomestone is named for.

BUT...to get each of the role tomestones you have to do content on one of those roles which could help queue times since if you actually want to gear tank or healer you have to play one.

They could even make it so the Expert Roulette gives you 3 bonus attempts per day but only once per role. So you could do expert on healer and get Allagan Tomestones of Creation (Healer) then switch to a DPS and still have a roulette bonus for Allagan Tomestones of Creation (DPS) and so on.

You still need to do more experts/content to cap all of them but that should be expected if you want more gear gotta do more work etc.

TL;DR: three types of tomes, one for each role, so gear one of each role of your choosing, all three 450 cap still, what tomestone you obtain in content is dependent on what role you are playing in said content.

[kattzkitti]

Which you can be done easily with verity or crafted gear

Only a small subsection of the population will ever level crafting jobs, and purchasing crafted gear off the marketboard is a fool's errand considering how exorbitantly overpriced it is, so that isn't a valid example to use.

Verity (or whatever the current content's uncapped tomestone happens to be at the time) is generally an incredible grind outside of your daily roulette boosts, which would fall under "snail's pace" gating.

Maybe if crafting wasn't such an exceptionally frustrating chore to level, more people would bother with it. Maybe if tomestone gear wasn't so exceptionally expensive, people wouldn't mind running the dungeons so much. We'll never know though, because Squeenix won't ever change anything.

[EmeraldSerenade]

As much as it sucks, this has been the best it's ever been. You have a lot of options to gear up right now.

1) Creation tomes. (You don't need every single piece of creation gear. Hell, some pieces are a downgrade for certain classes.)
2) Omega weekly gear.
3) Verity tomes.
4) Trial accessories / Weapons.


As someone who enjoys playing different classes, life's pretty good right now.