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  1. #1
    Player
    Bourne_Endeavor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    5,377
    Character
    Cassandra Solidor
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox View Post
    I don't know how you got the idea that I think capping tomes is difficult.
    You asked how the cap gives you time to do other things. I cap weekly without even meaning to just by playing the game itself. I haven't even done roulettes much in two weeks. If you miss a week, it's because you didn't play at some point. Which is fine, but that is not the system's fault.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron View Post
    Most other MMO's offer choice and variety in some form. Even if it is just "smoke and mirrors". FF14 is the only MMO that I have played (and I have played many) that makes no attempt to offer choice to the player beyond superficial things like glamour. Where are the skill trees? Attribute points? Gear choices? Weapon choices? Set bonuses? the list goes on. SB doesn't even have a proper raid anymore. Omega is literally 4 trial fights. They could be added to Trial Roulette today and fit just fine. It is not a Raid by any definition of the word. They are trials. Every other MMO around at least offers these things in some form. FF14 does not. Therefore it is linear. An MMO should never be linear. This is not FF13.
    Those other MMOs also lock you into a single class per character. FFXIV essentially treats its job flexibility as skill trees. Adding varying branches to each job would triple the workload. Now you have to balance Dragoon as a DPS, tank or support DPS. Instead, they promote switching jobs. That, however, comes with some limitations. You cannot just abruptly decide to change your main and have the best gear available.

    As for gear choices and set bonuses. Let's be honest. How much impact does those actually have? Blade & Soul has the aforementioned skill trees as does Black Desert. Both were micromanaged within days of release and everyone copied the hardcore PvP builds that were posted on reddit. While some games do it better than others, more often than not it's an illusion of choice. Say they made Dragoon a tank, but it was superior as a support melee DPS and not up to par with Warrior. Very few people will bother changing it to tank; less will bring it to raids.
    (5)
    Last edited by Bourne_Endeavor; 07-28-2017 at 05:03 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    SoloWingMetatron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    381
    Character
    Helel Ni-frith
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor View Post
    Those other MMOs also lock you into a single class per character. FFXIV essentially treats its job flexibility as skill trees. Adding varying branches to each job would triple the workload. Now you have to balance Dragoon as a DPS, tank or support DPS. Instead, they promote switching jobs. That, however, comes with some limitations. You cannot just abruptly decide to change your main and have the best gear available.

    As for gear choices and set bonuses. Let's be honest. How much impact does those actually have? Blade & Soul has the aforementioned skill trees as does Black Desert. Both were micromanaged within days of release and everyone copied the hardcore PvP builds that were posted on reddit. While some games do it better than others, more often than not it's an illusion of choice. Say they made Dragoon a tank, but it was superior as a support melee DPS and not up to par with Warrior. Very few people will bother changing it to tank; less will bring it to raids.
    I can understand your perspective on playing multiple jobs being an answer to skill trees. But I must disagree that multiple jobs and skill trees are the same thing. Furthermore not all those other MMO's lock you to a single class. PSO2 is the perfect example of this. In fact PSO2 in many ways is the perfect example of why FF14 has no excuse for it's lack of choice and options. SE is a multi billion dollar company, that is well known around the world. FF is a multi million dollar franchise that is beloved around the world. FF14 is one of the top MMO's atm. Not only that but it's a subscription based MMO, bringing in a lot of revenue for SE. It also has a successful cash shop bringing in more revenue. Yet how come a game like PSO2 that is not as well known. That isn't available and played worldwide. That isn't bringing in as much revenue (because it is a free to play game) can still bring all this depth, choice and diversity, that FF14 refuses to do even slightly. FF11 is another perfect example btw.

    My point is almost every other MMO out there is offering these options to the people (Even free to play MMO's!) Even if they're just "smoke and mirrors" as I said. Of course these options are not always just "smoke and mirrors" though and are actually important parts of making an MMO what they are.
    (9)
    Last edited by SoloWingMetatron; 07-28-2017 at 06:32 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Lollerblades's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    340
    Character
    Aro Foreal
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron View Post
    I can understand your perspective on playing multiple jobs being an answer to skill trees. But I must disagree that multiple jobs and skill trees are the same thing. Furthermore not all those other MMO's lock you to a single class. PSO2 is the perfect example of this. In fact PSO2 in many ways is the perfect example of why FF14 has no excuse for it's lack of choice and options. SE is a multi billion dollar company, that is well known around the world. FF is a multi million dollar franchise that is beloved around the world. FF14 is one of the top MMO's atm. Not only that but it's a subscription based MMO, bringing in a lot of revenue for SE. It also has a successful cash shop bringing in more revenue. Yet how come a game like PSO2 that is not as well known. That isn't available and played worldwide. That isn't bringing in as much revenue (because it is a free to play game) can still bring all this depth, choice and diversity, that FF14 refuses to do even slightly.

    My point is almost every other MMO out there is offering these options to the people (Even free to play MMO's!) Even if they're just "smoke and mirrors" as I said. Of course these options are not always just "smoke and mirrors".

    I know what you mean. Having played Pso2 the customisation and skill trees, far outweigh the lackluster tripe we have at the moment.
    Take merits from XI you could customise your job the way you wanted you where not all the same. Gearsets. Even in Pso2 you have your rainbow pallette, where's the elemental diversity? Fire damaging fire? Last I checked in single player incarnations of FF that healed. Nothing about this game is diverse, when it comes to its job system. Everyone is herded into doing the same thing, essentially we are prized cattle. Content wise the game is dull. It really is a copy and paste format and I really don't think it's going to stand the test of time.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    SoloWingMetatron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    381
    Character
    Helel Ni-frith
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lollerblades View Post
    I know what you mean. Having played Pso2 the customisation and skill trees, far outweigh the lackluster tripe we have at the moment.
    Take merits from XI you could customise your job the way you wanted you where not all the same. Gearsets. Even in Pso2 you have your rainbow pallette, where's the elemental diversity? Fire damaging fire? Last I checked in single player incarnations of FF that healed. Nothing about this game is diverse, when it comes to its job system. Everyone is herded into doing the same thing, essentially we are prized cattle. Content wise the game is dull. It really is a copy and paste format and I really don't think it's going to stand the test of time.
    I know right! Despite being a free to play game PSO2 offers so much in terms of job, gear, and character customization. Funnily enough even FF14 has seemingly tried to copy a number of things from PSO2. Wondrous Tails are just a direct copy of PSO2's Bingo Card system. PotD is just a copy of PSO2's Challenge Miles. Even Demi-Bahamut is just a copy of the Photon Blasts! Yet all of these things are just lesser versions of what PSO2 and other games have to offer! Where is the innovation SE!? Where is the soul!?

    FFXI is another good example of job customization as you say. I loved subbing SCH as a secondary job to my SMN main. Having that extra MP pool from Sublimation via my SCH sub was amazing! and something that can only exist with job customization, diversity and variety! Which is why it is important for FF14 to make that shift. It is far more than just "Smoke and Mirrors" people.

    Quote Originally Posted by odintius View Post
    Even if it's a illusion of choice I gravitate more to those type of games with set bonuses/choices. This is why I can put down this game easily after I've finish the main story and raid normal story and play something else until next story patch. I imo don't consider this a mmo to me it's more like a single player game with mutiplayer feature with very basic gear options. /Shrug that my two cents take it as you will still like the game don't get me wrong I just get more burnt out quickly with this game compare to others.
    I actually think FF14 would flourish far more as a single player game at this point. Or at least a semi multiplayer game, like Diablo 3 or Minecraft. Where you can just invite your friends to play with you in your own world. The MMO elements of FF14 are just sub par atm (All that nonsense with Ixion crashing games and blocking up The Lochs springs to mind. Just to name one of many examples). The things that make FF14 good are all things that would benefit more from being a single player/semi multiplayer game. Unfortunately the die has be cast at this point though, but nevertheless.
    (2)
    Last edited by SoloWingMetatron; 07-28-2017 at 07:42 AM.