Is SE really going to repeat the foruma from 2.0 and 3.0???

[Bourne_Endeavor]

How does it give you time to do other things? If you slack off one week you're behind 450 tomes. When you don't have to worry about hitting a cap, you have more flexibility as to what you can do. You can dungeon gear farm more effectively for glamor, you can gear more classes at the same time, which in turn encourages more people to try them out, which makes dungeon running more attractive since you have encouragement to run.

When you don't have any restrictions you can go at your own pace, it's not the other way around.

You make it sound like capping tomes is difficult. Between hunts, daily roulettes, raids, PotD, PvP and the level 70 dungeons offering 50 tomes per each, it's incredibly easy to cap even if you do it on a Monday evening. Removing the cap may allow for flexibility but it assures players will stop queuing for content. I can guarantee you Omega normal would be dead within a month or two if you could spam it for all the drops you fancy. Likewise, what motivation do I have to keep running dungeons if I can gather tomestones at my leisure? Furthermore, unlimited tomestones renders crafted gear and the 24 man raids absolutely worthless. Who would buy crafted some if they could just farm Creation tomes whenever they felt like? The system exists to keep people running content. You may be discourage, but the majority aren't.

[Jetstream_Fox]

You make it sound like capping tomes is difficult. Between hunts, daily roulettes, raids, PotD, PvP and the level 70 dungeons offering 50 tomes per each, it's incredibly easy to cap even if you do it on a Monday evening. Removing the cap may allow for flexibility but it assures players will stop queuing for content. I can guarantee you Omega normal would be dead within a month or two if you could spam it for all the drops you fancy. Likewise, what motivation do I have to keep running dungeons if I can gather tomestones at my leisure? Furthermore, unlimited tomestones renders crafted gear and the 24 man raids absolutely worthless. Who would buy crafted some if they could just farm Creation tomes whenever they felt like? The system exists to keep people running content. You may be discourage, but the majority aren't.

I don't know how you got the idea that I think capping tomes is difficult. I briefly explained why a restriction hurts the game, hunts for one would be pointless outside the token you get for materia, that added benefit allows them to stay attractive, and the fact the token drop isn't restricted per week or day helps create a constant flow of upgrades. I even touched on how a uncapped tome system encourages dungeon runs, no tome limit plus the promised gear drop, encourages more runs, glamor alone drives people to do content this is a proven fact, when it's paired with being able to keep classes geared up with current gear it doesn't form a negative impact on player sustainability.

PvP has uncapped wolf marks and players still farm it for that reason, though PvP is a touchy subject, more so based on how unbalanced it is and how unrefined it plays, PvP still gets plenty attention from the player base. PvP still has many people running it for exclusive items and bragging rights across the board, and PvP also encourages players to try new classes much more effectively than any PvE content. Again no weekly tome system.

Crafted gear is also touchy, many players myself included think crafted gear should be much more attractive, but it isn't, it's nearly pointless outside of HQ and if it didn't have the ability to be melded as much as it did, the gear would be dead on arrival. Same with 24 man raids, that gear has always been catch up gear with the option to upgrade tome gear.

PotD is successful due to the glaring fact you can run it as many times as you want, get unlimited chests, level up fast because of player drought in dungeons, and earn new rewards. But nothing has a limit on it.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I don't know how you got the idea that I think capping tomes is difficult.

You asked how the cap gives you time to do other things. I cap weekly without even meaning to just by playing the game itself. I haven't even done roulettes much in two weeks. If you miss a week, it's because you didn't play at some point. Which is fine, but that is not the system's fault.

Most other MMO's offer choice and variety in some form. Even if it is just "smoke and mirrors". FF14 is the only MMO that I have played (and I have played many) that makes no attempt to offer choice to the player beyond superficial things like glamour. Where are the skill trees? Attribute points? Gear choices? Weapon choices? Set bonuses? the list goes on. SB doesn't even have a proper raid anymore. Omega is literally 4 trial fights. They could be added to Trial Roulette today and fit just fine. It is not a Raid by any definition of the word. They are trials. Every other MMO around at least offers these things in some form. FF14 does not. Therefore it is linear. An MMO should never be linear. This is not FF13.

Those other MMOs also lock you into a single class per character. FFXIV essentially treats its job flexibility as skill trees. Adding varying branches to each job would triple the workload. Now you have to balance Dragoon as a DPS, tank or support DPS. Instead, they promote switching jobs. That, however, comes with some limitations. You cannot just abruptly decide to change your main and have the best gear available.

As for gear choices and set bonuses. Let's be honest. How much impact does those actually have? Blade & Soul has the aforementioned skill trees as does Black Desert. Both were micromanaged within days of release and everyone copied the hardcore PvP builds that were posted on reddit. While some games do it better than others, more often than not it's an illusion of choice. Say they made Dragoon a tank, but it was superior as a support melee DPS and not up to par with Warrior. Very few people will bother changing it to tank; less will bring it to raids.

[SoloWingMetatron]

Those other MMOs also lock you into a single class per character. FFXIV essentially treats its job flexibility as skill trees. Adding varying branches to each job would triple the workload. Now you have to balance Dragoon as a DPS, tank or support DPS. Instead, they promote switching jobs. That, however, comes with some limitations. You cannot just abruptly decide to change your main and have the best gear available.

As for gear choices and set bonuses. Let's be honest. How much impact does those actually have? Blade & Soul has the aforementioned skill trees as does Black Desert. Both were micromanaged within days of release and everyone copied the hardcore PvP builds that were posted on reddit. While some games do it better than others, more often than not it's an illusion of choice. Say they made Dragoon a tank, but it was superior as a support melee DPS and not up to par with Warrior. Very few people will bother changing it to tank; less will bring it to raids.

I can understand your perspective on playing multiple jobs being an answer to skill trees. But I must disagree that multiple jobs and skill trees are the same thing. Furthermore not all those other MMO's lock you to a single class. PSO2 is the perfect example of this. In fact PSO2 in many ways is the perfect example of why FF14 has no excuse for it's lack of choice and options. SE is a multi billion dollar company, that is well known around the world. FF is a multi million dollar franchise that is beloved around the world. FF14 is one of the top MMO's atm. Not only that but it's a subscription based MMO, bringing in a lot of revenue for SE. It also has a successful cash shop bringing in more revenue. Yet how come a game like PSO2 that is not as well known. That isn't available and played worldwide. That isn't bringing in as much revenue (because it is a free to play game) can still bring all this depth, choice and diversity, that FF14 refuses to do even slightly. FF11 is another perfect example btw.

My point is almost every other MMO out there is offering these options to the people (Even free to play MMO's!) Even if they're just "smoke and mirrors" as I said. Of course these options are not always just "smoke and mirrors" though and are actually important parts of making an MMO what they are.

[Lollerblades]

I can understand your perspective on playing multiple jobs being an answer to skill trees. But I must disagree that multiple jobs and skill trees are the same thing. Furthermore not all those other MMO's lock you to a single class. PSO2 is the perfect example of this. In fact PSO2 in many ways is the perfect example of why FF14 has no excuse for it's lack of choice and options. SE is a multi billion dollar company, that is well known around the world. FF is a multi million dollar franchise that is beloved around the world. FF14 is one of the top MMO's atm. Not only that but it's a subscription based MMO, bringing in a lot of revenue for SE. It also has a successful cash shop bringing in more revenue. Yet how come a game like PSO2 that is not as well known. That isn't available and played worldwide. That isn't bringing in as much revenue (because it is a free to play game) can still bring all this depth, choice and diversity, that FF14 refuses to do even slightly.

My point is almost every other MMO out there is offering these options to the people (Even free to play MMO's!) Even if they're just "smoke and mirrors" as I said. Of course these options are not always just "smoke and mirrors".

I know what you mean. Having played Pso2 the customisation and skill trees, far outweigh the lackluster tripe we have at the moment.
Take merits from XI you could customise your job the way you wanted you where not all the same. Gearsets. Even in Pso2 you have your rainbow pallette, where's the elemental diversity? Fire damaging fire? Last I checked in single player incarnations of FF that healed. Nothing about this game is diverse, when it comes to its job system. Everyone is herded into doing the same thing, essentially we are prized cattle. Content wise the game is dull. It really is a copy and paste format and I really don't think it's going to stand the test of time.

[SoloWingMetatron]

I know what you mean. Having played Pso2 the customisation and skill trees, far outweigh the lackluster tripe we have at the moment.
Take merits from XI you could customise your job the way you wanted you where not all the same. Gearsets. Even in Pso2 you have your rainbow pallette, where's the elemental diversity? Fire damaging fire? Last I checked in single player incarnations of FF that healed. Nothing about this game is diverse, when it comes to its job system. Everyone is herded into doing the same thing, essentially we are prized cattle. Content wise the game is dull. It really is a copy and paste format and I really don't think it's going to stand the test of time.

I know right! Despite being a free to play game PSO2 offers so much in terms of job, gear, and character customization. Funnily enough even FF14 has seemingly tried to copy a number of things from PSO2. Wondrous Tails are just a direct copy of PSO2's Bingo Card system. PotD is just a copy of PSO2's Challenge Miles. Even Demi-Bahamut is just a copy of the Photon Blasts! Yet all of these things are just lesser versions of what PSO2 and other games have to offer! Where is the innovation SE!? Where is the soul!?

FFXI is another good example of job customization as you say. I loved subbing SCH as a secondary job to my SMN main. Having that extra MP pool from Sublimation via my SCH sub was amazing! and something that can only exist with job customization, diversity and variety! Which is why it is important for FF14 to make that shift. It is far more than just "Smoke and Mirrors" people.

Even if it's a illusion of choice I gravitate more to those type of games with set bonuses/choices. This is why I can put down this game easily after I've finish the main story and raid normal story and play something else until next story patch. I imo don't consider this a mmo to me it's more like a single player game with mutiplayer feature with very basic gear options. /Shrug that my two cents take it as you will still like the game don't get me wrong I just get more burnt out quickly with this game compare to others.

I actually think FF14 would flourish far more as a single player game at this point. Or at least a semi multiplayer game, like Diablo 3 or Minecraft. Where you can just invite your friends to play with you in your own world. The MMO elements of FF14 are just sub par atm (All that nonsense with Ixion crashing games and blocking up The Lochs springs to mind. Just to name one of many examples). The things that make FF14 good are all things that would benefit more from being a single player/semi multiplayer game. Unfortunately the die has be cast at this point though, but nevertheless.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I don't know how you got the idea that I think capping tomes is difficult. I briefly explained why a restriction hurts the game, hunts for one would be pointless outside the token you get for materia, that added benefit allows them to stay attractive, and the fact the token drop isn't restricted per week or day helps create a constant flow of upgrades. I even touched on how a uncapped tome system encourages dungeon runs, no tome limit plus the promised gear drop, encourages more runs, glamor alone drives people to do content this is a proven fact, when it's paired with being able to keep classes geared up with current gear it doesn't form a negative impact on player sustainability.

You didn't touch upon anything beyond your own playstyle preferences. The devs need to consider the majority. People will not run content unless essentially bribed. For instance, very few raiders give a hoot about normal modes. They pick up crafted gear because many just can't be bothered with the easy mode equivalent. Allow them to farm drops whenever they fancy and I guarantee you normal mode Omega is dead content within a month. Why do you think they stuff mounts into practically everything? It keeps people active. The fact DPS queues jumped considerably after they slapped VI materia for "in need" bonus on leveling is a testament to that fact. Furthermore, no tomestone limitation renders crafted gear, non-augmented Omega gear and the 24 gear obsolete. I literally would have no reason to even look at Ivalice more than once since I'll have long gotten enough tomestones for every job I care about. In fact, look at Verity-- the current unrestricted tomestone. How many people at level 70 don't have all their gear at 310? It's been precisely one month and people already have multiple jobs at 310 because there's no limitation. That would occur if Creation were also uncapped, except unlike Verity, it's supposed to maintain relevancy for six months.

PvP has uncapped wolf marks and players still farm it for that reason, though PvP is a touchy subject, more so based on how unbalanced it is and how unrefined it plays, PvP still gets plenty attention from the player base. PvP still has many people running it for exclusive items and bragging rights across the board, and PvP also encourages players to try new classes much more effectively than any PvE content. Again no weekly tome system.

No they don't. I've been capped on wolf marks for months. I run PvP because I like it. The only time I cared about Wolf Marks is when I was hunting for glamours. Regardless, you just said one of the factors. People want those exclusive mounts, i.e. an incentive.

Crafted gear is also touchy, many players myself included think crafted gear should be much more attractive, but it isn't, it's nearly pointless outside of HQ and if it didn't have the ability to be melded as much as it did, the gear would be dead on arrival. Same with 24 man raids, that gear has always been catch up gear with the option to upgrade tome gear.

That's the point those. It gives players an option to avoid the weekly Omega lock out and gear to the ilvl requirement to enter Savage should they choose. It's stepping stones gear. The 24 man is both a catch up option and an incentive for veterans to gear their alts. As noted above, devoid of that incentive. People wouldn't have a reason to keep running them, which is how Weeping City and Dun Scaith stayed relevant several months after their release.

PotD is successful due to the glaring fact you can run it as many times as you want, get unlimited chests, level up fast because of player drought in dungeons, and earn new rewards. But nothing has a limit on it.

PotD is successful for its fast and efficient leveling. It would have died long ago had it not become the de facto way to level, especially as a DPS.