Unpopular opinion

[zipzo]

I guess s/he meant Thrill of Battle

Yeah, the one that heals based on %. Sorry, I got them mixed up. Good call.

[SyzzleSpark]

No. Savage has a lot of movement and phase changes that hurts war dps the most due to lower potency combos and big reliance on berserk/ir windows. Drk can MT all 4 bosses no problem due to dark mind, and have an easier time dpsing.

I'm not so sure about this. Most of the clear PoVs i've seen have shown WARs still outparsing the other tanks even while dealing with mechanics, usually hovering around 2.9K where the other two are at 2.5-2.6K

[Tankstuff]

I'm not so sure about this. Most of the clear PoVs i've seen have shown WARs still outparsing the other tanks even while dealing with mechanics, usually hovering around 2.9K where the other two are at 2.5-2.6K

maybe, idk I was just talking from personal experience, but im just a pub life pleb whose just starting 4 this week. Maybe when you have the entire fight down and planned out perfectly id take war but going in for prog I am def running dark, where I can slam my donger on the kb and still do optimal dps while doing mechanics and just dark mind everything

[aleph_null]

It's certainly more complex to optimize war during prog, but it's definitely not as terrible as people seem to think. At least after the stance switch penalty change it's a lot more forgiving.

[Tankstuff]

yea so i stand corrected, on 1 and 2 i tried war today and pulled 300 higher than I did on dark last week, although I got a few upgrades since then. Its not bad when you know exactly how to plan out your berserk and ir windows, but I still feel safer on dark going into prog and I disagree about their mitigation issues because once again were in a raid tier with very predictable damage with lots of magical busters right now. Not saying dark is fine though and doesnt need anymore buffs, they still need tweaks if we are using paladin as the standard. The stance swap change was negligible to me in a raid setting honestly because with shirk and pld/drk shields I feel comfortable never leaving deliverance, it is nice if we are pulling though which I think we should be if we have a pld with us

[RaizeGraymalkin]

You're effectively saying balance is impossible, then.

It kind of is. This game will never have perfect balance (no pun intended). Every job will have it's highs and lows. I think people just forget that at times. It's why you hear so much of "just play what you like". Eventually the job you play will be in a good place. You just have to accept at some points it won't be.

[Reynhart]

It kind of is. This game will never have perfect balance (no pun intended).

Frankly, I don't think it's impossible. The problem is that they want to balance them "in the void" (no pun either).

Like I said earlier in that thread, what they should balance is different party composition, and for that you create synergies. If no DPS has a slashing debuff, then WAR is better if your party has a NIN or a SAM. If PLD is changed to do piercing damage, and is given a piercing debuff (That would be removed from DRG), then a PLD is better if you have a DRG, a MCH or a BRD. And a DRK could be given a magic vulnerability, to better synergize with BLM, SMN and RDM.

As for healers, they could also create synergies. A healer that mainly uses abilities to heal is better paired with PLD or DRK than WAR. A healer that would spread an AoE based on the amount healed on your initial target would spread higher numbers by targeting a WAR than a PLD or a DRK, etc...

[Maku]

Frankly, I don't think it's impossible. The problem is that they want to balance them "in the void" (no pun either).

Like I said earlier in that thread, what they should balance is different party composition, and for that you create synergies. If no DPS has a slashing debuff, then WAR is better if your party has a NIN or a SAM. If PLD is changed to do piercing damage, and is given a piercing debuff (That would be removed from DRG), then a PLD is better if you have a DRG, a MCH or a BRD. And a DRK could be given a magic vulnerability, to better synergize with BLM, SMN and RDM.

As for healers, they could also create synergies. A healer that mainly uses abilities to heal is better paired with PLD or DRK than WAR. A healer that would spread an AoE based on the amount healed on your initial target would spread higher numbers by targeting a WAR than a PLD or a DRK, etc...

The whole synergy aspect is a great idea, if we were playing FFXI again. FFXIV is based around duty finder pugs. The only thing SE cares about is if all jobs can preform closeish to the same level in puggy dungeons. Raid content isn't even done by a large population of players. Since raids, especially prog are set up prior to entry and thus can be selective what does it matter if certain job out perform others? You have the time to select out the best jobs before hand but duty pugs do not.

If they created the synergy you are talking about then the DPS would have to perfectly balanced as well since you would be selecting a tank based on which DPS you had and there are clear winners and losers in the DPS world right now.

True balance will only ever be achieved when personal preference of aesthetics is the only deciding factor. Even a 100 dps difference will make the Prog Raiders select that DPS over others because Min/Max is a thing for a lot of people, even though they plan content to not need to min/max for the most part.

[Falar]

It kind of is. This game will never have perfect balance (no pun intended). Every job will have it's highs and lows. I think people just forget that at times. It's why you hear so much of "just play what you like". Eventually the job you play will be in a good place. You just have to accept at some points it won't be.

Agreed, but it is going to be a looong 4.xx for DRK then.

[silverlunarfox]

I think all the tanks end off pretty equal though lacking some utility. I don't see this as a problem however. Each tank has its own pros/cons, and its how you use it that will decide how good it is.

So I don't think its that people don't know what they're talking about, I think everyone just plays classes differently and has different inputs.