Unpopular opinion

[Mycow8me]

I try not to get into the DPS tank meta and I don't really know anything about dork knight but I really feel for them, from what I've read its like what happened to bard almost in terms of the amount of change (since the start of 4.0 anyway).

My paladin bro is happy with his changes and I'm happy with the war changes but agree with the OP that shake it off needs something... I really do think warrior could use at least 1 utility skill even if somewhat minor but I'm afraid we wont see one till next expansion.

I'm not a hardcore raider so I guess I'm not worried about balance as much as others. Something you need to understand about balancing is that if you sink into the "bring the best with the most" meta, you may never truly enjoy your favorite class in the game because there's always going to be a class that is better than you at something. I think thats what Yoshida was trying to say in that every class would be the same if they maintained a perfect balance.

I remember back in FFXI people came as whatever they wanted to play at the current time for whatever raid tier boss they were doing and no one threw a fuss about anything and just enjoyed each others company and the challenge. I don't think anyone ever even remotely thought about balance in any of the endgame groups I was in... but I wasn't a part of the ffxi forums at any point of time either.

[Reynhart]

I remember back in FFXI people came as whatever they wanted to play at the current time for whatever raid tier boss they were doing and no one threw a fuss about anything and just enjoyed each others company and the challenge. I don't think anyone ever even remotely thought about balance in any of the endgame groups I was in... but I wasn't a part of the ffxi forums at any point of time either.

Well, except PLD cause NIN was miles above at tanking and DPS...and except DRG which was crap for a very long time, especially with a garbage 2h skill that could die right away...and except Puppetmaster that no one wanted in groups...
In FFXI the balance was broken and the meta even more.

[Umbeliel]

I remember back in FFXI people came as whatever they wanted to play at the current time for whatever raid tier boss they were doing and no one threw a fuss about anything and just enjoyed each others company and the challenge. I don't think anyone ever even remotely thought about balance in any of the endgame groups I was in... but I wasn't a part of the ffxi forums at any point of time either.

There's two major reasons for that: XI's balance was all over the place(I'd say that unlike XIV they prioritized unique and interesting job mechanics before balance. This being a good thing or not isn't something I'd bicker about though lol.) and it quite frankly mattered even less than it does here. In XIV, though all classes can hypothetically do content, the strict 4/8 man party sizes(and strict 2/2/8 comps) for doing any nonspecific piece of content introduces an oppourtunity cost to anyone you take. You COULD take a Warrior, or you could take something better- which did exist with XI's 6 man comps but it's not nearly as punishing, and honestly the attitude is more or less the same as long as you stay within leveling content.

[LadyCeles]

DRK is best MT. They have faster and more DEF CDS then PLD. Yes PLD sentinal is 40% but the extra 10% isnt needed. Its nice but not needed. 2 minute to 3 minute CD tho is huge. Even tho sheltron now blocks magick its not ment to be used as a primary for tank busters. U use it with sent or ramp yes and u use it to proc shieldswipe. But used by itself ur asking to die or hope ur healer mitigation is on point

[Reynhart]

Yes PLD sentinel is 40% but the extra 10% isnt needed. Its nice but not needed. 2 minute to 3 minute CD tho is huge.

Shadow Wall is also on a 3 miutes CD. It's really just a weaker Sentinel.

[LadyCeles]

Apologies. Its vengence with the 2 minute CD. But still have shadow wall rampart tbn dark mind. Not a bad mitigation kit. Plus the cross skills. Im just saying there not in as bad a spot as people are saying. Can still use some adjustments but there pretty good.

[TankHunter678]

Apologies. Its vengence with the 2 minute CD. But still have shadow wall rampart tbn dark mind. Not a bad mitigation kit. Plus the cross skills. Im just saying there not in as bad a spot as people are saying. Can still use some adjustments but there pretty good.

Um let me put it like this.

DRK have 1 general purpose defensive cooldown, Shadow Wall on a 3 min cooldown. DRK have 1 Magic Defense cooldown, Dark Mind on a 1 minute cooldown.

That is it for damage reducing defensive until you get to role abilities at which point they get... Rampart.

TBN is merely a health shield, but it does not actually reduce the amount of damage we take, just like WAR's health boosting abilities do not reduce the amount of damage they take. They simply give you more health to take the damage with.

Compared to Paladin where you got Sentinel, Bulwark, Sheltron, and Passage of Arms before you include role abilities.

Throwing in defense from other abilities, DRK gets blind on an expensive AoE ability combo that eats 50% of our MP. Paladin gets Blind on a cheap spammable AoE then there is 2 other inherent CCs to the class in the form of a Stun (Shield Bash, Spammable) and Pacification (skill seal, Shield Swipe with short cooldown).

So when you really look at it, DRK is shafted when it comes to defensives.

[LadyCeles]

Then they should lower the cd rate to 2 minutes. I know i would take 30 % over 2 minutes then 40% over 3 minutes. It would be fair to hhaveWAR and DRK 30% AT 2 minutes with PLDs 40% at 3 (even tho 40% isnt needed)

[Eliroth-Kaminari]

i have all 3 tanks on 70:

my dummy 10min parse result atm:
War 3.1k pld 2.9k drk 2.8k:
Dark still barely keep up whit pld dmg.
drk dps relay on bloodsword + delirum combo so in real fight
Drk dps rotation is 2min pld dps rotation is 1min war dps rotation is 2min.
meaning in actual fight pld will get lesser impact when boss mechanic hits into your burst rotation.
so in real fight its harder to war bring out that dps same go to drk compare to pld.

Utility side Pld is king of utility and i have seen PLD/PLD comps because of it allredy for V4
Drk TBN is good mitigation skill but only come to same lvl as war IB or PLD Shieldron.
Thinking TBN as utility is not realy true.

Defence side DRK is bottom as well because Shadow wall is unnecessarily 3min cd when its weaker version of vengeance that is 2min cd and Sentinel is 3min because extra 10% mitigation that is good when tanking in Sword oath.
LD is still biggest punishing out of 3 tank panic buttons and at end of this raid tier we have around 61k health on tanks so good bless healers who can do 6k HPS to get it off whit 10s.

Useless skill list on tanks atm
War:
Shake it off - we will see change on this.
Drk:
Dark Passenger - u need to be idiot to use it whit mp cost it has.
Sole Survivor - it come close to useful as shake it off it is good when u can use it but it find maybe use in 1 of 4 raid fights and for that it become already in ground where it should find some buff or change.
Unleash - Might as well change it to flash now with potency it has at least it would blind. after lv 56 u can just forget u have that skill atall.
Blood Price - this skill is becoming less and less useful. Only use it has now it to get blood stacks in trash bulls to make Quietus manna gain aoes. and fixing it behind grit after that heavy mp regen nef is unnecessary.
PLD:
Total Eclipse - need enmity increase similar to abyssal drain not as strong as on flash or unleash but still increased on so dps aoe won't rip aggro off you.

[Tufelhunden]

i have all 3 tanks on 70:

my dummy 10min parse result atm:
War 3.1k pld 2.9k drk 2.8k:

So with a SAM or ninja. Pld is identical to the warrior, with better utility and Drk is 100 dps behind, presuming my math is correct.