Plenary Indulgence was THIS close to being good.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

Personally you should be looking at the party list anyway in case someone is dying. This new PI tells the other healer "chill I got this." Half the time the other healer will not top off anyone if they're and ast or sch. About the confessions, now we know what it's used for: for raid busters it excels. Gating it behind Lillies would just deem it as another assize rather than "Hey you aoe'd a lot here have this strong free aoe." Your complaint on the co-healer topping everyone off is if your pugging. If you're in a raid healers will push whatever dps they can and if they can trust you to top everyone off, they will let you do that. indominabilty is an awesome heal for sch but succor sucks compared at topping off. Helios and aspected on ast are just copies of medica/medicaII/succor anyway. Show your dominance. Also plainly PI before was useless flat out, at least now now it heals not only the tank but everyone else.

Not really fighting you if it sounds like it. Just really happy for the change and hope you can see my side of it.

I get what you're saying and yea I pug, but its easy for me to glance at hp bars to see who needs heals. Noticing tiny confession icons amidst the other buff icons less so.

There's no need to watch the stacks now, the proc rate is 100% and given the short duration, it's easy enough to have a pretty good idea of how many stacks you'll have, I've not yet felt the need to aim for 3 stacks TBH, there are a few occasions where I'll gun for 2 stacks before I use it a few moments later in an aoe sequence, but usually I just use 1 stack as a topper or medica II boost.

The proc rate is indeed 100%... unless someone gets topped off by your co-healer... or everyone gets topped off by your co-healer. As I mentioned above, I mainly pug so coordinating with my co-healer isn't a realistic option.

As I said PI is better than it was but it's really not a great level 70 ability (unless perhaps if you're in a static doing savage content and can coordinate with your co-healer effectively). For all intents and purposes (for me at least) it's just a 150 potency aoe heal every 60 seconds. Hardly anything to get excited about. It just feels like a very uninspiring button to hit.

But I'll happily take the PI we have now over what we had at launch.

[Sebazy]

The proc rate is indeed 100%... unless someone gets topped off by your co-healer... or everyone gets topped off by your co-healer. As I mentioned above, I mainly pug so coordinating with my co-healer isn't a realistic option.

Balance is a substantial net DPS gain... unless you throw it on someone who does 600dps... or everyone does 600dps.... As mentioned above, I mainly pug so getting decent DPS isn't a realistic option.

Raise's success rate is indeed 100%... unless you throw it on someone who raises into an aoe... or everyone raises into an aoe... As mentioned above, I mainly pug so getting people who know when not to take a raise or simply not press anything isn't a realistic option.

Jokes aside, if you're worrying about it in a situation where you and your co healer are going to top people on the first cast, you're likely using it in the wrong situation. A better example would be Susano or V4S where you get back to back aoes that need a fairly substantial amount of healing in-between. Remember that the 10 second duration resets when you gain a stack, it's very possible to stagger your medicas to roll the stacks over long enough for the next mechanic.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

Balance is a substantial net DPS gain... unless you throw it on someone who does 600dps... or everyone does 600dps.... As mentioned above, I mainly pug so getting decent DPS isn't a realistic option.

Raise's success rate is indeed 100%... unless you throw it on someone who raises into an aoe... or everyone raises into an aoe... As mentioned above, I mainly pug so getting people who know when not to take a raise or simply not press anything isn't a realistic option.

Jokes aside, if you're worrying about it in a situation where you and your co healer are going to top people on the first cast, you're likely using it in the wrong situation. A better example would be Susano or V4S where you get back to back aoes that need a fairly substantial amount of healing in-between. Remember that the 10 second duration resets when you gain a stack, it's very possible to stagger your medicas to roll the stacks over long enough for the next mechanic.

I get that the new PI can shine in high end content... but it seems so completely underwhelming everywhere else. For a new max level ability in the new xpac it just... I dunno feels anti-climactic. Regardless of whether its a 4 man dungeon, an 8 man ex primal or a 24 man raid, I wanna be excited about hitting a particular cooldown ability.

Take Assize, for example. No matter what content I am doing, hitting that button is awesome. I'm healing everyone around me (for 2 stacks worth of confession I might add), damaging anything around me, AND getting back 10% of my mp. THAT'S AWESOME! By comparison, at 70 we get... a 50% boost to medica every 60 seconds (essentially)? Not exactly "awesome".

[IveraIvalice]

Telling SE to rebalance a useful raid spell for non-raiders is the same as telling SE to balance "deployment tactics/Earthly Star/Excogination/CureIII/exc."

It's not the same because potency is limited based on stacks that I will never get in normal content. If I cast cure 3 I know it's going to do one thing and I can cast it whenever I want. Current PI will always be super weak in most content to the point that it's useless and super limited on a 10 second cool down that I can almost never use it for any reason other then I'm bored and want to see something different.
PI shouldn't be 10 seconds long and it shouldn't be based on stacks that you will only get in one type of content.

If I'm gonna say how I think it should be changed because most people haven't been, it would be this:
The confession duration should be 60 seconds. The potency should be a flat 300. Remove stacks. Recast is 90 seconds.
Aoe and 100% change is great. All it would be is panic aoe heal like tetragrammaton as long as the party member has a confession on them at any point in those 60 seconds.
That would mean I could make full use of it in dungeons or primals, I could plan for when to use it, and in raids you can do exactly the same if you know a heavy aoe part is coming up.
This would basically be a heal mine that you place on a party member and choose when it goes off

I think this is balanced especially when compared to tetragrammaton but if some would say this is op then I would remind you it's our level 70 spell. Thin air is op

[Lyrai_Celestine]

From seeing the runs of O4S, one of the obvious times I found a whole 3-stack PI really coming in handy is when Neo Exdeath essentially pressures the healers right before he dies. It's probably his desperation attack since he kept on repeating and pounding the arena with raid-wide damage non-stop. Just something good to note

I think we need some feedback from WHMs who cleared any Omega Savage to tell just how viable PI is in practice.

[Scarletelf]

I think this is balanced especially when compared to tetragrammaton but if some would say this is op then I would remind you it's our level 70 spell. Thin air is op

Thin air is OP, if having PI being a 70 skill really is a bothersome point to you then I agree that thin air should be your 70 and PI should be your 62. I personally think your 60 second confession timer is a bit too long, remember this is a 100% proc. an extension of at least 15 second I can get behind. A gripe I can understand is the low potency at 1st confession. 150 is like nothing, with 2 confessions you get a medica II's potency and 3 is MedicaI. I still feel like taking away confessions and making it a flat aoe would just make it a copy assize. REGARDLESS, it still has it's niche uses like CureIII and excels with what it offers. While cureIII is fun to use in primal/dungeons it's overhealing like crazy. I just think you need to see the overall usefulness in raids. If they buffed it like how you want it to be, Whitemages will be the dominant healer in raid content, a thing SE is actively trying to avoid. It would overtune whitemages making them the most unbalanced/OP healer in SB, and even with thin air, SB has the most balance in terms of healers by far.

[IveraIvalice]

Snip

The issue isnt that it's a level 70 ability it's the ability itself. There are instances in dungeons where cure 3 is better then either medica in dungeons, the only one I can think of right now is the hraesvelgr fight where the party is often stacked and the blue beams drop for a lot of damage. Other then that there are other times when the party stacks to take damage, cure 3 isnt used often but it has uses even in dungeons that arent overhealed. I'm not asking for something op because it's a 70 ability, I'm saying that even though I think the changes I would like are balanced, some would say it's op and in comparison to similar spells (Tetragrammaton and thin air), it's not actually op

Honestly the change I'm proposing wouldn't make it much different in raid battles since it has a longer cool down before you can use it again and the fact that the confession is on when you need it isn't much different then casting medica 2-3 times and using PI right after because your still using PI during that heavy aoe part. The only difference is you aren't forced to use it within 10 seconds and the max potency wouldn't be as high. Other then that it's basically the same in raids so it wouldn't make whm op in raids any more then it already is.

I can't really say much about the comparison so assize except it is pretty similar to assize even now. The only difference is potency and the fact that you can have more stacks. But you could just as easily do a few medica 1 or 2s and finish off with an assize to top off for a similar end result during heavy aoe parts. Basically wether it's changed or not it's still pretty similar to assize either way accept that PI is more limited

The 60 seconds could be dropped to as low as 30 as long as you can refresh it whenever you want but the strategy and balance of using it is based more around the cool down being so long. You have it whenever you need it but when you use it make sure you won't need it anytime soon. That seems like it works for everyone.
I don't doubt that it shines in raids currently but even most raiders don't do only that, it's only an improvement to make it useful outside there too. Again not everyone does raids and it should still be useful for everyone, especially because that's not a crazy request, it's absolutely doable

[Scarletelf]

it's absolutely doable

Doable yes, but I personally think your change is still too overtuned. And it's not only because for what it's for, it's already strong. I understand that you want more of a tweak for it, and who knows we may get a change. But overhauling the skill a second time, taking off confessions/utilizing lillies seems a bit much for an already good spell. IDK I personally think it's use is great, but specific. And making it easier to manage, extending the duration 30-60secs is not gonna cut it as is, it seems a little too easy of a spell then; you're no longer planning and instead using medica whenever to keep the confessions up (and as a whm you wouldn't be wasting mp anyway.) I'm just worried about its balance to the healer scene as a whole with your proposed changes. Like any buff to make it easier/better for non-raid aoe "heavy", if you can call it that, environments would still have to apply for the raiding environment.

[Sebazy]

The confession duration should be 60 seconds. The potency should be a flat 300. Remove stacks. Recast is 90 seconds.

You're missing the point of the ability.

It's not a unique individual heal you're meant to throw by itself. It's a topper for the most part. Something you throw for free at the tail end of another ability to get you that last bit of HP you need.

For example, in O2S coaching a group with a SCH, we quickly settled on Medica II + PI + Indom to deal with the first aoe, that combo had us topped enough thanks to the PI to safely do the stack mechanic that follows. Without PI I'd have had to throw another medica at the expense of my own DPS and MP.

For the most part, it's best to think of it as a 1 minute CD that lets you throw a 700 potency cure 3, or a medica II with 350 potency upfront. In that regard it's actually more potent than Largesse.

The only occasion I've consistently seen 3 stacks is in the final phase of O3S (and ofc the later stages of O4S). Outside of there it's just not worth chasing multiple stacks as you won't see them unless things are going wrong.

TLDR, it's not a cure 3 or assize in it's own right, use it on the tail of an aoe heal to top people when you need that little bit of extra aoe burst but don't/can't use largesse.

[Silver-Strider]

Snip.

If that's the point of the skill, I'd rather just have a trait that increased the potency of WHM's AoE heals, because that's all PI is doing at this point.