Plenary Indulgence was THIS close to being good.

[Scarletelf]

Well I have no interest in savage so this ability is still useless to me. The ability should still be balanced for the vast majority that don't do savage

Telling SE to rebalance a useful raid spell for non-raiders is the same as telling SE to balance "deployment tactics/Earthly Star/Excogination/CureIII/exc." They all have their uses in nonraid 4-8 player content, some more than others. BUT they shine so bright in Raid content where tank busters/raid aoe damage are at their highest. Personally I can get by with not touching MedicaII/CureIII/Benediction/ or Divine Benison in non-raid environments. By that logic they should balance these things (Especially CureIII/Benediction) because there is little need for them.

[IveraIvalice]

Telling SE to rebalance a useful raid spell for non-raiders is the same as telling SE to balance "deployment tactics/Earthly Star/Excogination/CureIII/exc."

It's not the same because potency is limited based on stacks that I will never get in normal content. If I cast cure 3 I know it's going to do one thing and I can cast it whenever I want. Current PI will always be super weak in most content to the point that it's useless and super limited on a 10 second cool down that I can almost never use it for any reason other then I'm bored and want to see something different.
PI shouldn't be 10 seconds long and it shouldn't be based on stacks that you will only get in one type of content.

If I'm gonna say how I think it should be changed because most people haven't been, it would be this:
The confession duration should be 60 seconds. The potency should be a flat 300. Remove stacks. Recast is 90 seconds.
Aoe and 100% change is great. All it would be is panic aoe heal like tetragrammaton as long as the party member has a confession on them at any point in those 60 seconds.
That would mean I could make full use of it in dungeons or primals, I could plan for when to use it, and in raids you can do exactly the same if you know a heavy aoe part is coming up.
This would basically be a heal mine that you place on a party member and choose when it goes off

I think this is balanced especially when compared to tetragrammaton but if some would say this is op then I would remind you it's our level 70 spell. Thin air is op

[Lyrai_Celestine]

From seeing the runs of O4S, one of the obvious times I found a whole 3-stack PI really coming in handy is when Neo Exdeath essentially pressures the healers right before he dies. It's probably his desperation attack since he kept on repeating and pounding the arena with raid-wide damage non-stop. Just something good to note

I think we need some feedback from WHMs who cleared any Omega Savage to tell just how viable PI is in practice.

[Scarletelf]

I think this is balanced especially when compared to tetragrammaton but if some would say this is op then I would remind you it's our level 70 spell. Thin air is op

Thin air is OP, if having PI being a 70 skill really is a bothersome point to you then I agree that thin air should be your 70 and PI should be your 62. I personally think your 60 second confession timer is a bit too long, remember this is a 100% proc. an extension of at least 15 second I can get behind. A gripe I can understand is the low potency at 1st confession. 150 is like nothing, with 2 confessions you get a medica II's potency and 3 is MedicaI. I still feel like taking away confessions and making it a flat aoe would just make it a copy assize. REGARDLESS, it still has it's niche uses like CureIII and excels with what it offers. While cureIII is fun to use in primal/dungeons it's overhealing like crazy. I just think you need to see the overall usefulness in raids. If they buffed it like how you want it to be, Whitemages will be the dominant healer in raid content, a thing SE is actively trying to avoid. It would overtune whitemages making them the most unbalanced/OP healer in SB, and even with thin air, SB has the most balance in terms of healers by far.

[IveraIvalice]

Snip

The issue isnt that it's a level 70 ability it's the ability itself. There are instances in dungeons where cure 3 is better then either medica in dungeons, the only one I can think of right now is the hraesvelgr fight where the party is often stacked and the blue beams drop for a lot of damage. Other then that there are other times when the party stacks to take damage, cure 3 isnt used often but it has uses even in dungeons that arent overhealed. I'm not asking for something op because it's a 70 ability, I'm saying that even though I think the changes I would like are balanced, some would say it's op and in comparison to similar spells (Tetragrammaton and thin air), it's not actually op

Honestly the change I'm proposing wouldn't make it much different in raid battles since it has a longer cool down before you can use it again and the fact that the confession is on when you need it isn't much different then casting medica 2-3 times and using PI right after because your still using PI during that heavy aoe part. The only difference is you aren't forced to use it within 10 seconds and the max potency wouldn't be as high. Other then that it's basically the same in raids so it wouldn't make whm op in raids any more then it already is.

I can't really say much about the comparison so assize except it is pretty similar to assize even now. The only difference is potency and the fact that you can have more stacks. But you could just as easily do a few medica 1 or 2s and finish off with an assize to top off for a similar end result during heavy aoe parts. Basically wether it's changed or not it's still pretty similar to assize either way accept that PI is more limited

The 60 seconds could be dropped to as low as 30 as long as you can refresh it whenever you want but the strategy and balance of using it is based more around the cool down being so long. You have it whenever you need it but when you use it make sure you won't need it anytime soon. That seems like it works for everyone.
I don't doubt that it shines in raids currently but even most raiders don't do only that, it's only an improvement to make it useful outside there too. Again not everyone does raids and it should still be useful for everyone, especially because that's not a crazy request, it's absolutely doable

[Scarletelf]

it's absolutely doable

Doable yes, but I personally think your change is still too overtuned. And it's not only because for what it's for, it's already strong. I understand that you want more of a tweak for it, and who knows we may get a change. But overhauling the skill a second time, taking off confessions/utilizing lillies seems a bit much for an already good spell. IDK I personally think it's use is great, but specific. And making it easier to manage, extending the duration 30-60secs is not gonna cut it as is, it seems a little too easy of a spell then; you're no longer planning and instead using medica whenever to keep the confessions up (and as a whm you wouldn't be wasting mp anyway.) I'm just worried about its balance to the healer scene as a whole with your proposed changes. Like any buff to make it easier/better for non-raid aoe "heavy", if you can call it that, environments would still have to apply for the raiding environment.

[Sebazy]

The confession duration should be 60 seconds. The potency should be a flat 300. Remove stacks. Recast is 90 seconds.

You're missing the point of the ability.

It's not a unique individual heal you're meant to throw by itself. It's a topper for the most part. Something you throw for free at the tail end of another ability to get you that last bit of HP you need.

For example, in O2S coaching a group with a SCH, we quickly settled on Medica II + PI + Indom to deal with the first aoe, that combo had us topped enough thanks to the PI to safely do the stack mechanic that follows. Without PI I'd have had to throw another medica at the expense of my own DPS and MP.

For the most part, it's best to think of it as a 1 minute CD that lets you throw a 700 potency cure 3, or a medica II with 350 potency upfront. In that regard it's actually more potent than Largesse.

The only occasion I've consistently seen 3 stacks is in the final phase of O3S (and ofc the later stages of O4S). Outside of there it's just not worth chasing multiple stacks as you won't see them unless things are going wrong.

TLDR, it's not a cure 3 or assize in it's own right, use it on the tail of an aoe heal to top people when you need that little bit of extra aoe burst but don't/can't use largesse.

[Silver-Strider]

Snip.

If that's the point of the skill, I'd rather just have a trait that increased the potency of WHM's AoE heals, because that's all PI is doing at this point.

[IveraIvalice]

it seems a little too easy of a spell then; you're no longer planning and instead using medica whenever to keep the confessions up /snip

An ability or spell doesn't need to be hard to use, that seems like the opposite of what we should have. I mean how many of our spells or abilities are hard to use or have such strict limitations? Every one of our spells and abilities can be cast for an effect whenever we need it as long as it's cool down is ready. This is the only ability that is only limited to a 10 second window and the effect varies with something we would never do outside of raid content.

The planning isn't when to give the confession stack it's when to activate the ability. It's still similar to how it is now except that you don't have to cast an aoe 10 seconds before to use PI since that's the part that makes it limiting and in a dungeon you're probably fine after one aoe most times so requiring it to be right after an aoe is still useless usually. I don't consider this to be an overhaul since I'm not asking to remove confessions or utilize lillies, it's just adjusting the numbers and removing stacks

TLDR, it's not a cure 3 or assize in it's own right, use it on the tail of an aoe heal to top people when you need that little bit of extra aoe burst but don't/can't use largesse.

I understand the point of the ability as it currently is and that's the problem. The problem is that when the patch notes came out almost everyone agreed that the new changes were dumb because there would never be a need to cast an aoe 3 times in a row and then need another aoe heal after that. Everyone changed their mind when savage came out because there is a need for that in savage. But for the majority of people that don't do savage at all the original complaints are still valid and everyone in defense of this ability as it is now hasn't given a single example of its usefulness outside of savage. Everyone says it's useful in "this" savage fight in "this" part of the fight, and that's exactly my point.

But how many people raid regularly? And of that how many people do savage mode raiding, probably a small amount of the population.
It will be very easy to say "then this ability isn't for you" but if this ability isn't for me as a non raider then this ability isn't for a lot of people.
I don't want to take away its usefulness in raiding, I just want to make it useful for everyone. Make it not so limiting and make it a set potency, it's not really a drastic change

[Scarletelf]

Snip

That's the thing, the spell isn't hard in the slightest. Yes it's limited behind confessions meaning you can't spam it whenever. Scholars have deployment tactics that literally does nothing if the adlo is off or eye for an eye. Astrologians celestial opposition and time dilation are useless if there isn't a card to extend. Altho you can still press these buttons whenever it means it's that much easier to screw up. WHMs only have two skills that are restrictive at all, Benison and PI, whilst the other healers have more (scholars in specific lock their fairies or eat them). SO I never considered PI to be a "tetra" type skill but rather a supporty "e.tactics/synestry". They're there to help with boost healing but are not required at all. The Spell isn't hard to utilize at all, you just need to plan.

Planning is a bit extreme of a word, nothing like scholar. More like "I wonder if I should PI after this MedicaI." BUT Ye i think making it more powerful is too much for a spell that is more of a QoL than anything. Whitemages do not need two OGCD powerful aoe heals. And it's not clunky at all to manage it flows quite nicely with everything.

On that topic of people calling it useless when seeing the patch. I have personally never seen anyone complain about it (aside from forum threads). There was a consensus that a usable ability was better than Hotbar filler. Also you should definitely raid. Not only will it give you perspective on the skill, but they made it hands down easier than any of the heavensward raid. I thinks in part due to seeing and learning the rotations in Normal mode. At least for the first two turns.