Please, NEVER nerf RDM!

[NorthernLadMSP]

All I see in these threads are two groups of people. One group that mains RDM and is begging to remain OP and one group of everyone else that see's the reality of the situation.

[Reilyn]

As for the other question, as of late i've had to step into a melee role as there aren't many reading up anymore and i do this to support the tank. it also places me near him in case i need to throw a support heal. as it stands without enhancements to my melee i can do around 1500-2300 compared to just around 2000-3000 (without critical) so it doesn't really make to much difference and i can do two things at once rather then just casting. Also if i relly more on Jolt, Scatter, and Impulse from that range my bar still goes up and i get an AOE around 1300-1500 (without critical) that makes the runs go much faster. On bosses i'll hang back and bombard them with my spells sure but leading up the melee is on par with most Monks and adds a second sword to the mix, then add in the AOE stuff and a lot of tanks have been very very thankful.

I almost regret not reading this sooner. I needed a good laugh.

All I see in these threads are two groups of people. One group that mains RDM and is begging to remain OP and one group of everyone else that see's the reality of the situation.

By 'OP' you mean 'not quite the highest dps, but mobile'... ?

[NorthernLadMSP]

I almost regret not reading this sooner. I needed a good laugh.



By 'OP' you mean 'not quite the highest dps, but mobile'... ?

I mean great utility, highly mobile, insta casts, very big DPS, basically no mana issues, super simple, easy playstyle - basically a job with 0 drawbacks and DPS that is outshining the two other casters when it should be the lowest of the three. RDM is basically the AST of the casters IMO. AST also needs to be brought back down to Earth. Oh, not to mention that there is 0 reason to bring a SMN or a BLM when you can just have a RDM. This situation screams AST 3.4 all over again.

[Blackheart]

As for the other question, as of late i've had to step into a melee role as there aren't many reading up anymore and i do this to support the tank. it also places me near him in case i need to throw a support heal. as it stands without enhancements to my melee i can do around 1500-2300 compared to just around 2000-3000 (without critical) so it doesn't really make to much difference and i can do two things at once rather then just casting. Also if i relly more on Jolt, Scatter, and Impulse from that range my bar still goes up and i get an AOE around 1300-1500 (without critical) that makes the runs go much faster. On bosses i'll hang back and bombard them with my spells sure but leading up the melee is on par with most Monks and adds a second sword to the mix, then add in the AOE stuff and a lot of tanks have been very very thankful.

[Reilyn]

I mean great utility, highly mobile, insta casts, very big DPS, basically no mana issues, super simple, easy playstyle - basically a job with 0 drawbacks and DPS that is outshining the two other casters when it should be the lowest of the three. RDM is basically the AST of the casters IMO. AST also needs to be brought back down to Earth. Oh, not to mention that there is 0 reason to bring a SMN or a BLM when you can just have a RDM. This situation screams AST 3.4 all over again.

When you phrase it that way, it almost sounds like you believe it's entirely RDM's fault, when the truth is, SMN is a convoluted mess to play that needs its mechanics reworked, and BLM was apparently doing more dps with its HW rotations than its 4.0 rotation (ask an actual BLM about that) as well as unforgiving timers that punish a loss of a GCD heavily.

Nerfing RDM, and doing nothing else will not make SMN, and BLM's problems go away, just like how nerfing AST's healing potencies alone will not make WHM's problems go away.

In this case of casters, I'd argue that more DPS jobs should have more phase-change/boss mechanic screwage-friendly traits/changes. Again, actual BLMs could talk of the specifics about what needs a few seconds more on its duration, but the CD reduction of triplecast was a good start. SMN... again, is just a mess.

Even if RDM were nerfed, the discussion we should be having, and likely will be seeing alot more of, will be the difficulty of the other casters to hit their performance ceiling when it's the problem that should be addressed now before heavy-handed nerfs go out.

Oh, just saying it now, no dps should be balanced around how easy it is to play, and SE agrees if the live letter was anything to go by. Just feels like someone is bound to argue that every 5 min when it comes to RDM discussion.

[File2ish]

Snip

I've raised half a party, and the MP hit is staggering. BUT I've had quite a few bards in my duties and their MP refresh helps wonders with that. At least in raiding instances, I'd assume there would be a bard since they're pretty great overall right now.

Take Bard away, and yes, having to raise people 4+ people at once in an 8 man is going to kill your MP reserves. No denying that. But even without a Bard to refresh you can sustain your normal damage output with lucid dreaming (and not 4 dying at once >.>), and depending on the situation/timing of lucid dreaming you'll have enough MP to be good the rest of the fight.

But the fact remains that Verraise as a utility is a massive boon to the party, especially the healers. BLM's utility is far more limited in scope. And while BLM pretty much has infinite MP, but the rest of it's utility is still lacking. RDM shouldn't be dealing more dmg in my opinion, it should be ~same or a bit less.

[Reilyn]

But the fact remains that Verraise as a utility is a massive boon to the party, especially the healers. BLM's utility is far more limited in scope. And while BLM pretty much has infinite MP, but the rest of it's utility is still lacking. RDM shouldn't be dealing more dmg in my opinion, it should be ~same or a bit less.

Pretty sure RDM and BLM dps is less than ~150 away from each other as is with the slight number advantage given to BLM.

The only limiting factor is the BLM's own mechanics falling so hard on their face when a big boss puts something bad under their feet, or on their head.

As for the value of verraise, yes it's nice for easy stuff like the ex primals, but the better your group is, the less valuable it becomes. Also, if endgame ever became as unforgiving as gordias savage, you may as well wipe it up, and start again.

[TankHunter678]

-snip-

My luck with drawing a Bard in my parties is about as consistent as me getting a Ewer every time I actually need to use one. Very poor.

Anyways, right now there is something that is mucking with the logs that needs fixing so that we can see the true DPS of RDM vs BLM, especially with the coming changes:

RDM has a mana glitch that makes use of the reduced gain caused by mana imbalance. Not only is the gain reduced, but expenditure as well. This allows a RDM that adjusts for this to burst combo more often leading to higher then intended damage output which is influencing the logs. In fact, leading to there being an almost 400-500 DPS difference between the top RDM on the JP/EU servers vs the NA ones on Susano.

Aside from that RDM and BLM are actually competing very close to each other on the logs in the susano fight. The upcoming BLM buffs should definitely push it over RDM, and if that mana glitch is fixed then RDM will definitely be underneath BLM in damage output even in a fight that it has the mobility advantage in.

[Dualgunner]

Red Mage is a jack of all trades.

A jack of all trades is a master of none, and should not be objectively better than the masters of one at their own crafts.

False.

In Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood, Red Mage is a caster DPS that, due to class mechanics, has mobility and melee abilities as well. In its toolkit are a Vercure and a Verraise, but neither means that Red Mage is a "jack of all trades".

[Reilyn]

Yes, a jack of all trades. Not a caster that does more damage than the staple casting job (BLM), has better utility, and doesn't suffer a damage loss as much as the aformentioned job when confronted with AoEs to dodge. Red Mage needs a nerf, I say this as a RDM who loves the job (going back to FFXI even). While I love how the job currently is, it's overpowered when considering all it brings vs what the other jobs have. Balance is more important than keeping the job as is. Cause it's either nerf RDM or buff the other DPS jobs.

Red Mage is a jack of all trades.

A jack of all trades is a master of none, and should not be objectively better than the masters of one at their own crafts.

Good thing they aren't objectively better at white magic, or black magic compared to white, and black mages.

They can't heal like a WHM, and they don't have the offensive spell variety of black magic, or AOE potency of a BLM. If a BLM is allowed to sit and cast, they can possibly beat RDMs already.

Sounds like the design is working as intended from a lore standpoint, and in practice on many levels honestly, which is actually praiseworthy.

I'm not saying BLM doesn't have it's own share of problems to deal with, don't get me wrong.