Healer adjustment in 4.05

[Furious]

I didn't say SCH had more HPS, I said it had more output. Link one source, time by time, percentile by percentile log where a noct AST exceeds a SCH in both damage and HPS simultaneously; you can't because Noct requires you to waste dozens of GCDs doing what eos can do by herself. It wasn't uncommon to have SCH mainheal in speed clears either because their opportunity cost per spell is so low compared to other healers, allowing more uptime for their co-heals to DPS. Creator was also piss easy so I tried to optimize it for fun? You literally have no logs, nothing to show for how much you're spewing leading me to believe you have 0 idea what you're talking about .-.

In what subjective timeframe do you consider output and hps to be different, since they are a measure of exactly the same thing?

[Jxnibbles]

Why haven't they discussed the elephant in the room.

[CreinCrein]

HPS and DPS in conjunction. AKA 99% dps/10-20% hps runs versus 99% dps/50-60th% hps runs. AKA meeting the required healing and mitigation checks while assisting your co-healer in freeing up GCDs so they can perform that their best so you can kill shit faster and more efficiently. Of course it varies by group and how much weight you have to pull. Example, you have a sch do nothing but dps and they will still output 1700+ hps with proper pet management (because lel eos) while having an AST do the same means the only heals going out would be lady of crowns and earthly star in addition to doing 200-300dps? less because their dps skills are significantly less potent.

[Sansa78]

Just like how WHM still isn't looked at. That's all.

[LegoTechnic]

HPS and DPS in conjunction. AKA 99% dps/10-20% hps runs versus 99% dps/50-60th% hps runs. AKA meeting the required healing and mitigation checks while assisting your co-healer in freeing up GCDs so they can perform that their best so you can kill shit faster and more efficiently. Of course it varies by group and how much weight you have to pull. Example, you have a sch do nothing but dps and they will still output 1700+ hps with proper pet management (because lel eos) while having an AST do the same means the only heals going out would be lady of crowns and earthly star.

I understand the point you want to make because SCH is rather replete with ogcd heals, but you exaggerate. Eos can only obtain that kind of passive healing potency for 21 seconds once every minute using Rouse+Whispering Dawn, and Rouse does include a player ogcd delay, otherwise embrace runs currently around a hps of 1000 (3000 heal, two second cast with a three second cooldown). Embrace is slightly more potent than a WHM regen or Diurnal AST AspBen, which both cost a GCD (no cast time), so SCH save a GCD for the effect of a single regen, and a third of the time can put up a powerful regen for the cost of a single ogcd (which you usually don't bother to weave since it can only be done after Bio II) instead of the other healers 2.5 second spell-casts (or a Medica II equivalent regen for free if needed, but seriously you always Rouse WD).

Furthermore SCH have three ogcd heals useable once a minute due to Aetherize stacks, whether it be indomitability or Lustrate (Indom is gated by its 30 second cooldown so it can only be used twice every minute at best), so this gives them one more stable ogcd heal than AST who have both Earthly Star and Essential Dignity on 60 second cooldowns or WHM with Tetragrammaton and Assize on the same. While AST also have Lady of Crowns as a 3rd useable ogcd, this is gated by RNG and thus not always reliable, and similarly WHM also have Benediction as a 3rd but this comes with a three minute cooldown. SCH can also technically Dissipate the fairy for three additional stacks, but this both costs the use of the fairy as well as the eventual resummoning mana cost (2400 MP), but typically only gives you additional lustrates or energy drains due to indom's cooldown.

To compensate for Eos's passive healing, SCH healing potency is either reduced or restrained compared to the other healers with their mana costs inflated. Adloquium is 1800 mana, which is the same as Aspected Helios in cost, and Succor is 2280 mana which is the same cost as WHM's Cure III. Physick is slightly weaker than the other base heals having never had a proc effect and now having lower potency to boot, and their Cure II/Benefic II equivalent is gated by a 30 second cooldown ogcd and adloquium's high mana cost (Cure II is 1200 mana, BeneII 1080), and this shares cooldown with their Medica equivalent for similar cost restrictions (Medica is 1680 MP, Helios is 1440).

In the end, I would agree that SCH is well optimized for the DPS healing role. While steps have been made to narrow the ogcd healing field between the three healers, SCH has both a passive heal effect in the fairy (and we are ignoring Selene for this obviously), as well as restrained personal healing skills comparatively, so it easily takes the role of DPS healer since it not only does is a little better, but can't do the main healing role as well, and that last bit is important. As gear level increases and speed runs become the goal SCH can slip into the role of main healer, but you will not see it often during progression simply because their toolset isn't as forgiving, and as always the second a healer is able to single-heal an encounter the idea of an off-healer is dropped in favor of an additional DPS, so whichever healer is best able to perform that role the easiest is the most desired one.

[Furious]

HPS and DPS in conjunction. AKA 99% dps/10-20% hps runs versus 99% dps/50-60th% hps runs. AKA meeting the required healing and mitigation checks while assisting your co-healer in freeing up GCDs so they can perform that their best so you can kill shit faster and more efficiently. Of course it varies by group and how much weight you have to pull. Example, you have a sch do nothing but dps and they will still output 1700+ hps with proper pet management (because lel eos) while having an AST do the same means the only heals going out would be lady of crowns and earthly star in addition to doing 200-300dps? less because their dps skills are significantly less potent.

Logs don't attribute balance damage to the astrologian, so this is somewhat of a lopsided way of considering it. In most of the parses at the top of the logs for susano/lakshmi, scholars are a few hundred dps above their astrologian counterparts, while the raid dps is around 25+k and balance uptime is around 50%. Obviously there is variance in both these numbers, but if we take those numbers as an example, dropping the astrologian would account for practically the same dps drop as entirely dropping the personal damage of either healer just by itself.

Attributing the damage of balance to the astrologians in most cases would end up with them being some 50-100% higher on dps than the scholar.

Whether or not your damage/healing source is active or passive is really neither here nor there. It doesn't matter overly much where the contribution comes from. In theory, any parse with sub 50% balance uptime would gain SIGNIFICANTLY more dps by having a second astrologian and staggering balances than by having another healer. Even if the astrologian is very unlucky and we call it 30% uptime and 20k base raid damage, you're still looking at 600 dps directly attributable to the astrologian, whereas the biggest dps discrepancy I can find in around the top 20 parses in either fight between a sch and an ast is around 450dps. Most of the time, it's more like 200.

[CreinCrein]

I understand the point you want to make because SCH is rather replete with ogcd heals, but you exaggerate.

Actually, I was low-balling it. https://www.fflogs.com/reports/2hpa9...ary&source=515 / 2186 dps, 1785~ hps from the fairy alone not factoring in OGCDs. Non-optimal fairy usage, autopilot greed parse

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/mv3nP...mmary&source=1 / 1931 dps, 3000 hps with 2500 hps coming from eos alone. Fastest recorded world clear, outhealed their co-healer.

[CreinCrein]

snip

Yet none of the top 10 fastest recorded clears runs double AST, if we're talking about SCH/Noct AST competing for the same raid slot with an AST as the co-healer. Nobody thinking about optimizing a raid comp would even consider double AST for a couple of key reasons. Output is non-comparable, you shoot yourself and your co in the foot percentile-wise in both HPS and DPS. You also forgot to mention Chain Strat which when buff stacking with a co's balance, BV, BL, TA, Hypercharge or whatever buffs your party throws up is exponential and more consistent.

[LegoTechnic]

Actually, I was low-balling it. https://www.fflogs.com/reports/2hpa9...ary&source=515 / 2186 dps, 1785~ hps from the fairy alone not factoring in OGCDs. Non-optimal fairy usage, autopilot greed parse

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/mv3nP...mmary&source=1 / 1931 dps, 3000 hps with 2500 hps coming from eos alone. Fastest recorded world clear, outhealed their co-healer.

What you aren't considering is that Eos's abilities are fire-and-away, meaning once you trigger them they go off and they're not easily reigned in, which is typical of regens but Eos is far more restrictive and unwieldly. This means much of that healing is completely wasted.

In the first log you listed no less than 47% of Whispering Dawn's healing is overheal, as well as 40% of Fey Union. In the second log literally 53% of Whispering Dawn is overheal, and 28% from Union. This is actually not all that unusual for regen effects and you will see similar overheal numbers with the other healers use of AspHel or Medica II as well, but those abilities are easily more on-demand and can be spread out over the entire fight instead of restrained to specific spike moments. Susano is also a little unique in his pacing in that Eos has a lot of places she can shine, such as Union during the gaol or jump rope, and whispering/covenant for Unkehi/lightning, with those moments being spaced out perfectly for her buff timers (you will always have both Whispering Dawn and either Covenant or Illumination up for each Unkehi, the latter two you can stagger). In the sword phase Eos is also able to literally use her entire toolkit with non-wasteful results (which is pretty rare), but these are also part of playing to match the encounter and may not always be the case.

[CreinCrein]

FFlogs takes away overheal, lol. It is subtracted and not calculated in the percentiles and numerical values listed, just like how it takes away overkill dps. Click the "raw healing" tab to include the excluded overheal. *facepalm*