Not again...

[Dizzy_Derp]

The only way a Paladin beats the other 2 tanks is either if you are getting help like the AST is giving balance only to you or you are not o.ohaving to do tank mechanics such as the sword qte you let some poor dps to it on Susano or not getting balls cause you let a ranged or healer do it while the other tank still does their job.

That us factually incorrect,, pld us doing more damage unbuffed than the other two. plz check your shit and make sure you're not just putting your foot in your moth with your posts.

[Nixxe]

Unless they significantly lengthen the cast time, you should still be able to get 5 holy spirits in. You would just lose the ability to use ogcds between casts.

Which would be sad, actually. I would miss it.

That's exactly what I want to avoid. I don't want to be a fake caster for any length of time. I'd rather just have a potency nerf.

[Poison_Rose]

That's exactly what I want to avoid. I don't want to be a fake caster for any length of time. I'd rather just have a potency nerf.

As much as I hate to say it, I think that's exactly what they're going to go for. Losing the ogcds that is. Something something, raising the skill floor.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The only way a Paladin beats the other 2 tanks is either if you are getting help like the AST is giving balance only to you or you are not having to do tank mechanics such as the sword qte you let some poor dps to it on Susano or not getting balls cause you let a ranged or healer do it while the other tank still does their job.

This just isn't true. Paladin currently does the highest overall damage of all the tanks while arguably working the least to achieve it. Warrior has to go through a whole twelve step program to maybe, possibly, hopefully pull off six Fell Cleaves. Wait. Did the boss just jump? Rip all your damage. Is the boss going to jump before you can build up? Gotta do a baby opener for much less damage. Dark Knight, meanwhile, is the weakest of the three. FFLogs even accounts for this. Look at the no balance column. 43 Paladin have broke 3,000+ DPS without balance carries. Only five Warriors and Dark Knights have managed that.

[Faeon]

PLD main here and the argument 'but pld offers utility!!!' doesn't hold when you don't need it

Group Mitigation is all nice if you have shit healers or awful gear, but as the gear progresses, PoA & divine veil will lose its worth because 'hey we survive it just as well without it' and that's where the damage comes in.

The raids in this game are centered around damage. You can skip mechanics if you do enough damage, so why take a pld if you don'T need the mitigation when you can have a drk that makes more dps?


the HS nerf is minor, but the problem is real. The utility paladin offers is not something that gets used or is even needed outside the first 3 weeks of raiding

Group Utility is centered around dps. If PLD had a group buff that would increase the damage of the party by 5% or w/e, then the damage the paladin does not do would be done by the party, but a 4500 hp shield on top of a fully healed, already shielded party does not kill the boss faster

This I agree with, but there is nothing that can be done about it SE don't balance around DPS of a single tank as they said before in a LL. They balance overall group DPS with different comps, if they match there requirements everything fine. Its the player-base who creates this negative and meta game play in this MMO. There is nothing that can be done about this, people leave and people stay and make due. Unfortunately one of the tanks will always be left out just like DPS.

We will have to accept it and move on, no amount of complaints will make SE balance a fight on a per job basis as they would never be able to meat the 3 month patch requirements. That is from Yoshi's own mouth.

[SunAurel]

This I agree with, but there is nothing that can be done about it SE don't balance around DPS of a single tank as they said before in a LL. They balance overall group DPS with different comps, if they match there requirements everything fine. Its the player-base who creates this negative and meta game play in this MMO. There is nothing that can be done about this, people leave and people stay and make due. Unfortunately one of the tanks will always be left out just like DPS.

We will have to accept it and move on, no amount of complaints will make SE balance a fight on a per job basis as they would never be able to meat the 3 month patch requirements. That is from Yoshi's own mouth.

but why couldn't it be Warrior for once :<

[Faeon]

but why couldn't it be Warrior for once :<

I wish I could answer this, I just don't know. Though they love WAR since it got a complete rework in 2.x, got made the near perfect tank in 3.x with dps and utility.

I moved from PLD to WAR and DRK in 3.x or I could not clear raid content since groups were "PLD get the Fxxx out of here quotes" so I understand how you feel.

Maybe they got some dev who is just like every job is shit except WAR lol! Your guess is as good as mine.

[kensatsu]

You can't bring all defensive utility and nice dps to one tank.
But playerbase think all is about dps now. All the time.
Gordias bring this in the mind, but don't tell it was the case on A9s to A12s pls...
Now you won't change this bad mentality about tank dps now. and it make PLD to want equal dps instead of more defensive utility, because the first care of the playerbase is the dps, by the way, load of midcore savage raiders, think only about dps and put as a priority before the mecanics, it slow the progress a lot.
PLD is fine i think even after this little nerf, but how to change mind of the playerbase about dps. i can understand why PLD want dps so strongly.

[YitharV2]

But you can't just keep buffing everyone........then you need to adjust all content because the average DPS is higher, etc etc etc. It's much, much easier to bring a job down then bring everyone else up

Sure we can!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsC8...utu.be&t=4m55s

[aleph_null]

You can't bring all defensive utility and nice dps to one tank.
But playerbase think all is about dps. All the time.
Gordias bring this in the mind, but don't tell it was the case on A9s to A12s pls...
Now you won't change this bad mentality about tank dps now. and it make PLD to want equal dps instead of more defensive utility, because the first care of the playerbase is the dps, by the way, load of midcore savage raiders, think only about dps and put as a priority before the mecanics, it slow the progress a lot.

Ironically most of this playerbase aren't even qualified to complain about drk being ahead of pld in speedkills. How many of those who cleared a12s actually ever managed to tank the whole fight without tank stance? Most of the pugs I've seen still adopt the MT-OT, MH-OH style, with one MT turtle tanking in grit/shield oath and one MH healing nearly the whole time. If they complain about a12s being almost purely magic damage heavy and pld being bad there, sure, I agree that it's a very valid concern.

Gordias was famous for being dps check heavy, but people often forget that it's also difficult to optimize tanking/healing there (I never cleared a3s when it was current so I may not be qualified to comment on this either). Most of the damages going to tanks in a3s and a4s are actually cleaves with no cast bar, so planning and timing your mitigation cds for them to allow for less tank stance uptime is hard. On top of that a3s requires a lot of boss repositioning, so if the tank is bad at it, melees will lose a lot of positionals. Midas a7s and a8s are probably good examples of fights where pld's extra physical mitigation, divine veil and hallowed ground actually make them worth taking over drk unless you're doing speedkills where drk's higher dps makes it the optimal choice.