The Raid community as we know it

[KisaiTenshi]

Ferrasper makes a great point and I would add in real life, there are laws such as title 7, EEOC reg, ADA, etc. that deter certain behavior seen in online games. But I digress.

This hardcore raider being interviewed could be viewed with a wary eye since one could question his distribution of time and life choices. But, what this kind of player chooses to do and how they go about is ultimately their choice and not, I would argue, for the rest of us to pass judgment. The hardcore raider can contend it's hypocritical for us to criticize them for criticizing others gameplay yet it be ok for us to pass judgment on their approach to a game as an indictment of their life choices.

The hardcore raider would be correct, so again live and let it be.

There would be no problem with that if the hardcore raiders weren't spreading their toxic playstyle to the rest of the game and actively causing or encouraging people to quit the game so they can raid more "without those casuals causing a wipe"

If a raid group kicks a player for any reason not direct attributed to making the game unbearable, that is griefing. Kicking people because they haven't got melded BiS gear, or certain achievements or minions is just plain griefing and people who do that are the ones who need to grow up. If you don't want to play with the filthy casuals, then never touch the DF without a static party. Life does not give you the perfect team, ever, in the job or school environment, learn to adapt, or make certain you always have your dream team ready. But let me tell you, in reality, you don't get to pick people who get to work with you, and a perfect team comes with time and promotion from within, not by poaching the most experienced.

Hence you can avoid most of the drama inside a MMO video game by being extremely selective about what raiders you play with, and what guilds you join. I'd actually suggest people completely avoid guilds that have any presence outside the single video game they are playing to avoid encroachment on your personal/family life.

Xeno's elitism is part of his persona. That's what works for him, his static and his audience. I wouldn't take the attitude of one relatively infamous "bully" to represent the entirety of the raiding community.


I don't think a lot of people are sitting around wondering why more people don't raid. Raiding is difficult. It takes a lot of time, skill and dedication. Generally speaking, it requires people to be better than average at their jobs. Final Fantasy XIV is, for the most part, a very casual game, and the majority of players are completely content with being casual.

That's not excusable. Nobody is asking for everyone to be a sweet cupcake, because sometimes you do need someone to be "Dr.House" and give it to you straight, but the entire point of "Dr.House" was that he lacked bedside manner or tact, because he only took cases that were challenging. He absolutely did everything possible to avoid doing anything easy. If your patient thinks the pills you prescribe them make their pee smell funny so they stopped taking them, you want the doctor to say "You will ****ing die if you don't take those pills. That is on YOU, not ME."

Hence in a raid, if there is a wipe, identify the problem, not WHO cause the problem. Not enough DPS, ask who can do better. Can't heal through damage, ask if anyone can switch with the healer. Tank is instant-killed on a certain mechanic, switch tanks, etc. If someone you play with simply can't play any role, as apparent by always taking dirt naps as DPS, then perhaps that person needs to try a different DPS. You get absolutely nowhere by kicking people because they aren't the top 1% DPS on a third party unverifiable website.

[akaneakki]

There would be no problem with that if the hardcore raiders weren't spreading their toxic playstyle to the rest of the game.

What? I mean it, the question is.. what?
There are more people who spread out bad play than ''toxic'' play that you say. In fact you dont need to be doing that 1% to even raid, yo can be that 10% of the player community. You know what triggers me? All these people asking for nerf and such for a main story trial, doesn't that tell you anything? In fact... we know who's to blame for them not bothering. You see it here, in game and you see it in other threads. ''It's just a game'' ''no need to bother because it's just a game'' You see, I don't disagree it's a game, however, doesnt mean you should have attitude of not trying. When people sponsor bad play this happens...

[Lambdafish]

What? I mean it, the question is.. what?
There are more people who spread out bad play than ''toxic'' play that you say.

The funny part is that I was once in a "debate" with Kisai where they were trying to promote the idea that regen was situational and a bad skill to use constantly because it generates too much enmity. I've been ignoring all of their posts and not taking anything they say about high-level play since that debate.

[akaneakki]

The funny part is that I was once in a "debate" with Kisai where they were trying to promote the idea that regen was situational and a bad skill to use constantly because it generates too much enmity. I've been ignoring all of their posts and not taking anything they say about high-level play since that debate.

Their video showed it too, medica spam on a dps that's not even close by.

[missybee]

Hence in a raid, if there is a wipe, identify the problem, not WHO cause the problem. Not enough DPS, ask who can do better. Can't heal through damage, ask if anyone can switch with the healer. Tank is instant-killed on a certain mechanic, switch tanks, etc. If someone you play with simply can't play any role, as apparent by always taking dirt naps as DPS, then perhaps that person needs to try a different DPS. You get absolutely nowhere by kicking people because they aren't the top 1% DPS on a third party unverifiable website.

How about instead of that, do what works best for your own static?

I'm not sure what you are on about with regard to switching and all that jazz. Roles don't tend to be super malleable in a savage-tier static (particularly this early on when most people only have a few 70s). What does the meta dictate is the best? Learn how to play it well and then bring some of those jobs. We aren't talking about running optimized Omega normals here. No one cares about that.

[amihavingfunyet]

Hence in a raid, if there is a wipe, identify the problem, not WHO cause the problem. Not enough DPS, ask who can do better. Can't heal through damage, ask if anyone can switch with the healer. Tank is instant-killed on a certain mechanic, switch tanks, etc. If someone you play with simply can't play any role, as apparent by always taking dirt naps as DPS, then perhaps that person needs to try a different DPS. You get absolutely nowhere by kicking people because they aren't the top 1% DPS on a third party unverifiable website.

Just switching classes/roles is not always an option. Sure a tank can switch from ie WAR to DRK during a raid tier without problem. But you can't just switch a DPS to a healer. All the drops that DPS (and the healer they are going to replace) got will be wasted and this hurts your progression.
And you really shouldn't sugar coat it too if people don't perform at a level needed to clear the content. But instead of only saying "u suck" you should try and find solutions that will work for your group. Send the DPS that doesn't do enough DPS out to learn their rotation on a dummy. Maybe change some strategies so someone else handles a mechanic. Maybe have your tanks switch their OT/MT position. Have your healers rethink their approach.
But if you just tolerate someone underperforming (this is relative to your groups performance, not absolute measured to the world's top players.)/constantly tripping over mechanics this will drag down everyone else and eventually your static will die from it, I've seen it happen enough times.

[alimdia]

If a raid group kicks a player for any reason not direct attributed to making the game unbearable, that is griefing. Kicking people because they haven't got melded BiS gear, or certain achievements or minions is just plain griefing and people who do that are the ones who need to grow up.

I'm curious why you think the other 7 party members can't decide who they want to play with in a premade party.

[Kling-Klang]

There would be no problem with that if the hardcore raiders weren't spreading their toxic playstyle to the rest of the game and actively causing or encouraging people to quit the game so they can raid more "without those casuals causing a wipe"

They do raid ""without those casuals causing a wipe"" because the players like that have their own statics.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

There would be no problem with that if the hardcore raiders weren't spreading their toxic playstyle to the rest of the game and actively causing or encouraging people to quit the game so they can raid more "without those casuals causing a wipe"

If a raid group kicks a player for any reason not direct attributed to making the game unbearable, that is griefing.

People need to have a mind of their own. Just because Xeno, MrHappy or anyone else says something doesn't mean everyone should necessarily take it as the gospel nor are they responsible for those who do. They aren't encouraging anything. If you dislike their respective styles or the audience who is drawn towards it, don't participate.

No, it isn't. Putting aside we have GMs specifically quoted claiming kicks are justifiable for any reason. If I put up a Party Finder, I am free to restrict it however I please. That includes excluding people who don't meld, use food, DPS on healer or wear Fending gear. I could do something stupid like demand meta groups for Shinryu. If these perimeters aren't to your fancy, you are free to leave. You cannot, however, force me to accept you won't meld. The only thing we can't outright do is post parse numbers to shame other players publicly. Anything else is entirely fair game. Don't like, leave the parties who enforce it.

That's not excusable. Nobody is asking for everyone to be a sweet cupcake, because sometimes you do need someone to be "Dr.House" and give it to you straight, but the entire point of "Dr.House" was that he lacked bedside manner or tact, because he only took cases that were challenging. He absolutely did everything possible to avoid doing anything easy. If your patient thinks the pills you prescribe them make their pee smell funny so they stopped taking them, you want the doctor to say "You will ****ing die if you don't take those pills. That is on YOU, not ME."

Hence in a raid, if there is a wipe, identify the problem, not WHO cause the problem. Not enough DPS, ask who can do better. Can't heal through damage, ask if anyone can switch with the healer. Tank is instant-killed on a certain mechanic, switch tanks, etc. If someone you play with simply can't play any role, as apparent by always taking dirt naps as DPS, then perhaps that person needs to try a different DPS. You get absolutely nowhere by kicking people because they aren't the top 1% DPS on a third party unverifiable website.

They don't do that. They are simply brutally honest-- think along the lines of "Well that was fucking retarded. How about not standing next to the tank like a dumbass?" Aggressive, yes, but that's the style they happen to like. If you don't, stay out of their parties. And it isn't like Xeno suddenly goes off on a verbal beat down for every little mistake. I've been in his parties before. The only time he starts getting pissed is when people continuously make the same dumb mistakes, especially if they refuse to own up to them. He's far more tolerant in learning parties, for instance. Hell, he's stayed with people for hours just to help them clear. It's the people he feels has wasted his time or have no interest in self improvement where his patience wanes.

People are not obligated to coddle nor make you feel good. There is a reason every video game with an online component specifically mentions "online experience may change." And before you go on about griefing. GMs will not do anything should someone call you names over discord. They only care if it happens directly in-game.

[akaneakki]

PThey only care if it happens directly in-game.

I know tons of people who play with xeno and he can be blunt but such a great guy. The fact he helps a lot of players, guides to savage raids, tank perspective etc and so on. I would also get mad if someone makes mistake plenty of times when they shouldn't. The sad part is the same excuse always comes ''as long the duty is done doesn't matter how long it takes'' Or ''its just a game we all play for fun'' FF14 is highly pointed as a big pve game with good story, and pve means shit has to die simple as that. Many often think it's funny for the other people in group to wipe all over again and again.

To make it simple when you are good at something, you want to get in and out fast, not screwing around thinking its okay.