AST issues and Healer role

[Cyrocco]

I got a simple valid argument for you. How can you make a feasible argument about "which healer is the best in game" or what balances need to be applied to healers when you don't have first hand knowledge of the level 70 content in game as a healer?

I need endgame experience to know how level 30 skills work? Wasn't aware.

Futhermore: Check the healer forums you're posting on.

Futhermore: Check Reddit.

Furthermore: Check the PF.

Furthermore: Do the math.

Furthermore: Ask literally anyone.

[Tonjiar]

I need endgame experience to know how level 30 skills work? Wasn't aware.

I'll go with the quip first, "You do know that there are job abilities past level 30, right?".

Your knowledge is flawed due to hearsay from the general playerbase. The same playerbase who you are irate with their want for a "buff". You lack a single experience healing with any healing job for the 70 content. You've only complained and pull up personal generalizations this whole thread with no firm facts or points to validate any claim you have made. Due to these reasons, and your personal inexperience on the matter at hand, I'll leave to your own and hope you enjoy future ASTs requesting the same as I and those before me have done for the benefit of our job.

[Cyrocco]

/Snip.

Yeahhh...No. Astrologian is 68. That's one skill missing. Balance issues are not solely seen at level 70 content. These "generalizations" directly address your complaint. All knowledge outside of numbers and results is flawed because people have opinions, ergo, by that argument, your entire post is flawed.

While my argument remains, I learned these skills top to bottom when level 60 was the cap, got my Anima and everything, big boy. They haven't changed. You're looking for an out.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

And to close, show me your evidence and I'll show you mine.

[inhaledcorn]

-snip-

Uh, none of the healers have a lv68 skill. Instead, they have lv68 traits.

... Granted, they're all Spears of some sort, so they essentially have nothing, but that's besides the point.

[Tonjiar]

Yeahhh...No. Astrologian is 68. That's one skill missing. Balance issues are not solely seen at level 70 content. These "generalizations" directly address your complaint. All knowledge outside of numbers and results is flawed because people have opinions, ergo, by that argument, your entire post is flawed.

While my argument remains, I learned these skills top to bottom when level 60 was the cap, got my Anima and everything, big boy. They haven't changed. You're looking for an out.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

And to close, show me your evidence and I'll show you mine.

I'm not claiming healing numbers for who is top dog right now or about balance issue between the healing jobs. That's you in case you have forgotten your prior posts.

You want evidence of what I have claimed? Sure.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/9199114/

Your current healing jobs are 22 Conj, 53 SCH, and 68 AST. You haven't done the current level 70 content as a healer because you legitimately can't get into the content as a healer. You can only reference other people's opinion and it's not even the vast majority of the playbase you're taking information from and quoting thoughts and beliefs as "truth" or "facts".

Where's your math, you say do it but have provide no content to back up your claims just as your other posts do the same.

It's like your post start a thought, get sidetracked and you end up making a fragmented post with thought base "potholes" and inaccuracies according to only "your", and I use the term loosely because you only have a sum of only what you have read and not what you have experienced or validated, healer ideology.

Also let me help you with something

This is a fact

Current AST problems for me:

• Can't see the other card buffs for other ASTs, this makes me want to avoid healing with any other AST on principal of the card overwrite. Could fix this by allowing cards not of the same type to stack, ie no double bole but bole and a balance.
• Can't remove the royal road buff, there are situations where i want to remove an aoe in favor of a single target in the moment without burning another card for an overwrite. Yes those situations happen infrequently but often enough that I notice I can't do this anymore.

This is an opinion

Current AST problems:

• Can't see the other card buffs for other ASTs, this makes me want to avoid healing with any other AST on principal of the card overwrite. Could fix this by allowing cards not of the same type to stack, ie no double bole but bole and a balance.
• Can't remove the royal road buff, there are situations where i want to remove an aoe in favor of a single target in the moment without burning another card for an overwrite. Yes those situations happen infrequently but often enough that I notice I can't do this anymore.

Might be hard for you to see the difference but I'm sure if you read enough reddit posts about it someone will tell you why.

[Sebazy]

Futhermore: Check the healer forums you're posting on.

Futhermore: Check Reddit.

One thing I will add, these forums (and reddit) have been massively wrong on plenty of occasions. Mindlessly basing your opinions on either of these is a very risky game

Want some examples? Years ago (My opinion was based on early 7 man SCOB sales long before the lockout was removed) I practically got laughed off reddit for claiming that Selene was actually a net DPS loss vs Eos. The moment ranked speed running became a thing? Eos everywhere.

And here? Well you only have to look recently at how most people were screaming that WHM was stone dead in the water and SCH was going to be a beast. Best forum u-turn 2k17?

Your views miss one huge detail imo. Some cards can literally be a booby trap in certain situations. Spear is a classic example of this, using it on DPS mid Savage attempts can throw their rotations off and will often result in a DPS loss as things fall out of sequence. Having Sleeve Draw drop a Spear in Spread is all the reason I ever need to never use that ability without a Balance in my pocket.

I need endgame experience to know how level 30 skills work? Wasn't aware.

Yes.

Many jobs are in the situation they are now because SE admittedly tuned them around dummies rather than actual content. DRG, BLM and War all look absolutely fine on paper and do decently on dummies. Throw them in real content and they underperform really quite drastically. With proper testing or oh I don't know, how about some actual understanding of how things play at the endgame, SE could have avoided these mistakes really rather easily.

[Cyrocco]

Yes.

Many jobs are in the situation they are now because SE admittedly tuned them around dummies rather than actual content. DRG, BLM and War all look absolutely fine on paper and do decently on dummies.

Do Cards work on dummies? I don't believe so. And I do believe this thread refers to Astrologian performance. Not DPS. Understanding the full functionality of Draw/Royal Road/Shuffle lies more within the player than the actual level or stats. So no. I don't need to be level 70 to understand the full capabilities of Royal Road. Because I understood them just fine. Belittling me for being level 68 instead of 70 doesn't change my skill. I'll understand all of them just the same when I'm level 70 too. But I suppose bullies will be bullies.

[Sebazy]

I played Dungeons at level 60. I played Raids at level 60. There isn't a huge change outside of individual mechanics. Otherwise you could state that people don't know how to use Royal Road with every new raid.

I guess I should have been clearer when I referred to 'raids', I'm coming from the perspective of how these cards and abilities play out in relevant (and pre echo) Savage content. Understand that prior Coil/Savage raids have always played out very differently to EX primals and are typically a significant step up in terms of difficulty (More so for Gordias/Midas, less so for Creator), there's no reason to suggest that Omega Savage will be any different in this regard. It's also worth noting that you'll often prioritise cards very differently in certain turns (yes sometimes there is actually life beyond balance )

Please don't take it as an insult or me trying to belittle you (My 'some actual understanding of...' comment was aimed at SE's class team, not you) but please appreciate that killing Sophia 6 months after her release isn't really worthy of 'raid experience'. And further on from that, try to understand that doing early and relevant Savage progression really opens your eyes to the more intricate details of this game, it's a whole different world compared to most primals. Guides, dummies and more casual content can only take you so far. It's not until you're sat in a TS with 7 other people theorycrafting up a means to extract another 10% raidwide DPS to pass a hurdle that you really start to understand how to get the best from the ways in which all these little abilities interact with each other.

So no. I don't need to be level 70 to understand the full capabilities of Royal Road.

Rather, you'd need to be level 70 and have a good amount of experience doing early Savage progression to really understand the full capabilities of Royal Road, when it's good, when it's better off gone and how you can squeeze that last 10% out of it. Or rather that was the case until 4.0 took the axe to much of it's intricacy. To deny that each classes learning curve stops once you've read your level 70 tooltips is massively short sighted and healers are most certainly not exempt from this. For example, your comment on page one regarding Sleeve Draw has me suspecting that you don't appreciate how distracting and potentially detrimental that ability will likely be in a Savage progression setting if it's not used under very specific circumstances (Aka a Balance sitting in your pocket and you're fishing for an aoe Royal Road).

Sorry in advance if that comes across as condescending but I really can't see any other way to sugar coat it better

[Cyrocco]

I’m level 68. I haven’t made any detailed comments on it because I don’t have it. I’ve done my EX Raids for Heavensward. I’ve got my Anima. Royal Road simply doesn’t evolve further in the new content. There are slightly new situations, but it remains the same. There isn’t anything new besides processing the situation a different way.

[Sebazy]

I’m level 68. I haven’t made any detailed comments on it because I don’t have it. I’ve done my EX Raids for Heavensward*. I’ve got my Anima.

Minus the two primals that best approached the level of real raid content. Thordan was a fantastic stepping stone into proper raid content and you're missing out there

Royal Road simply doesn’t evolve further in the new content. There are slightly new situations, but it remains the same. There isn’t anything new besides processing the situation a different way.

We're getting somewhere! The 'slightly new' situations are infact the nuances where you can use cards you otherwise straight out auto discard. Bole on the Warrior during the last set of adds to enable them to just sit in deliverance full time long before we were geared or echo was out is a great example of a non DPS card being used to enable a very significant DPS gain. In a situation where you can only throw a single target balance? Knowing who is doing the best DPS at that point in time is another more straight forward example. You've got a lot more potential situations to process and you've got fractions of a second in which to do it if you really want to extract every last bit from your cards. This is not something you can learn from tooltips, forum posts or Mr Happy videos.

Could fix this by allowing cards not of the same type to stack, ie no double bole but bole and a balance.

As above, not a chance, AST is a wonderful job, particularly when I'm not the one that's got to play it A change like that would have my group leaning on me to switch to it again as well, no thanks =(