Total Eclipse after all the fuss about pali aoe never see anyone use it why?

[dragonseth07]

Given that most melee seem to be afraid of doing aoes, and the artificial walls in dungeons often limiting pulls to around 6 or 7 it's not unheard of for a pack to be smaller. When you pull like that it usually doesn't take long to get the pack down to 5 or less. Yeah of course use it, but really I'm more concerned about all the melee dps that don't use aoes cause they're afraid of being low on tp than whether or not a pld has a tiny dps loss on a pack of mobs.

People haven't figured out they need to pack Invigorate and Goad yet. They'll get there.

[RLofOBFL]

The ENTIRE point of Total Eclipse is for a filler skill so PLD can contribute for AOE in 5+ pack pulls. PLD already gets a shield and unlimited defensive CDs, this is just icing on the already very large cake. I for one am extremely glad they added it. Despite maining PLD, I would never do dungeons in 3.x as one, as DRK and WAR felt not only more fun, but actually useful and able to help contribute. I am always using TE until I run out of TP and glare at my screen wondering why my dps haven't goaded me.

[Shinkyo]

Actually you need 4 mobs for it to be a dps gain when you have goring blade, with holy spirit you need 5 mobs to be a dps gain.

That's assuming you get full duration from Goring from each mob. In practice, by the time you dropped your 6-7 mob pack to 4-5, the mobs will be at less than 50% hp and applying goring on the remaining mob won't be efficient (with a good dps group)

[Furious]

I can think of several times where its been great for me the level 61 dungeon after second boss if you pull every add in that room and you arent helpin with aoe ur gona die. Its many big pulls you can do in the new dungeons where using this skill isnt poop and you have df cool downs why would I let everyone else do all the work I been waiting on this aoe for a while now hah.

You should be casting Clemency while your healer AoEs.

Holy and gravity are 200 potency, ramping down to 100 potency for the 6th and on target. The healer's weapon is higher damage than yours, and their damage scales from the stat they have on all pieces of gear (the 320 versions, not our 270 ones).

If you can live without casting clemency AND the healer doesn't need to heal you with on-gcd heals then fine. Go for it. If you're casting total eclipse while the healer casts a heal on you, your group lost damage.

I'm really confused by this post. What is Total Eclipse doing that's preventing healer DPS? And what does it have to do with being healed? You know it's usable inside Shield Oath right? Like... wat

Nothing, but there is very little chance that while you aoe pull the leveling dungeons, you are taking little enough damage that you don't need healing, and thus if you cast total eclipse and the healer casts an on-gcd heal, that is not the most efficient choice. In the post I quoted, the guy talks about pulling every add after the first boss; there is no chance in hell you are surviving that pull without active healing.

[Hruodig]

You should be casting Clemency while your healer AoEs.

Holy and gravity are 200 potency, ramping down to 100 potency for the 6th and on target. The healer's weapon is higher damage than yours, and their damage scales from the stat they have on all pieces of gear.

If you can live without casting clemency AND the healer doesn't need to heal you with on-gcd heals then fine. Go for it. If you're casting total eclipse while the healer casts a heal on you, your group lost damage.

If you have a whm, holy stuns. A good whm will have regen ticking on you while they're holying, plus they'll have a tetra and a bene waiting for when you do get low. There's no reason for you to leave dps on the table. Ast is a bit different for sure since gravity doesn't stun, but the same concept applies-good players won't leave dps on the table.

[Furious]

If you have a whm, holy stuns. A good whm will have regen ticking on you while they're holying, plus they'll have a tetra and a bene waiting for when you do get low. There's no reason for you to leave dps on the table. Ast is a bit different for sure since gravity doesn't stun, but the same concept applies-good players won't leave dps on the table.

Nobody ever said they did. I said in my original post; total eclipse is the last resort, because it's poopy. It doesn't mean I don't use it when it is the last resort. If you can pull more mobs and live with clemency, then do it. If you need healing and can heal yourself while the healer casts another aoe, then do it. If neither of the above apply, cast total eclipse.

Clemency is more enmity than anything other than flash in an aoe sitaution and it applies to all mobs you are engaged with. It heals for a comparatively large amount compared with healer efficient on-gcd heals, its effect is not reduced by tank stance but it's enmity is. Aim for situations where it is efficient to use it as an aoe tool (by making yourself a proxy for your healer to do more damage). If anyone else is also taking damage it also becomes 50% more efficient still.

Clemency is a tool we have that people underutilize FAR more than total eclipse. For some reason, everyone's ok with telling healers to dps when it's efficient to do so, but when you say tanks should heal when it's efficient people raise eyebrows. My guess is that it's harder to elucidate the rationale behind it than by just looking at the meters like you can when healers dps.

[bswpayton]

Nobody ever said

I get what your saying , I use clemency pretty often, but as a tank my job is to tank and deal damage I mostly df or run with a friend here and there you cant just assume that your healer is going to dps much in the first place. Leveling sam and rdm , it was 50/50 whether or not a healer was dpsing or not, and what of the other tanks. Should I not Abyssal Drain spam on drk, because my healer wants to dps so why just stand their on pali,, also on pali on that pull I mention I always use hg so thats def a window for a healer to add to the dps as well. But just standing their healing myself hoping that the healer wants to full on dps just doesnt make sense when I have my own tool to help the team out.

[Furious]

I get what your saying , I use clemency pretty often, but as a tank my job is to tank and deal damage I mostly df or run with a friend here and there you cant just assume that your healer is going to dps much in the first place. Leveling sam and rdm , it was 50/50 whether or not a healer was dpsing or not, and what of the other tanks. Should I not Abyssal Drain spam on drk, because my healer wants to dps so why just stand their on pali,, also on pali on that pull I mention I always use hg so thats def a window for a healer to add to the dps as well. But just standing their healing myself hoping that the healer wants to full on dps just doesnt make sense when I have my own tool to help the team out.

Your dark doesn't have the option of healing itself; your paladin does. Again; "as a last resort". When you are casting clemecy on pld, you are not "just standing there". You are using your gcds to heal yourself so the healer doesn't have to use theirs. Your healing acts as a proxy for theirs, and their damage for yours. If your drk had the option of spending its gcds staying alive while the healer does more dps, it also likely would. If your healer isn't doing dps, tell them to do dps. If they still don't, you have a shitty healer, so just dps yourself (the least efficient option, and yet sometimes the last resort).

I'm going to state this again because apparently people can't or don't take it in; if the healer doesn't need to actively heal you then of course you use total eclipse, but also make sure that you can't also just pull more stuff to increase the efficiency of the better dps of the other 3 members.

[silentwindfr]

depend of the dps you have in your group, if they are strong, total eclipse is a risky choice to spam. flash is more sure for this, at 70 with a good group of dps, you will not be able to use it a lot. especially if you chain pull... i use it, but not that much, like a lot i feel it like enmity generation. the dps gain is.... wait my jobs is tank, not dps, i seriously don't care that i get 93.5 dps from it seriously... i will often need to refill my mana meaning do my combo for this, because shiltron is not always up. i do powerpull, means... i don't have any time for refill mana between group...

i can use it time to time, if the group have bad dps yes, i can... but if they are good and well stuffed... hmmm nope... too risky.

[Thoro39]

I've seen PLDs in DF pull 10~mobs at once and then just proceed to single-target RageOfHalone every single one them one at a time WAY too often, it just makes me die inside. At least I can count on WARs and DRKs to mostly be aware of their AOE than this PLD-nonsense.