Dragoons... how do you feel post 4.0?

[Stormbad]

You can get eyes during LotD... guys it really seems like you are just complaining for the sake of it and don't even comprehend the class. Also LotD will be always above 23s unless you are fucking up your rotation.
Try harder, plz.

Omg, my reading comprehension fail. Time to increase my dps lol.

[Riotpersona]

You can get eyes during LotD... guys it really seems like you are just complaining for the sake of it and don't even comprehend the class. Also LotD will be always above 23s unless you are fucking up your rotation.
Try harder, plz.

Pretty sure they spoke in error, but their ideas are completely sound. SE already made BotD completely irrelevant with SB DRG.

LotD is not always at 23 seconds even if performed perfectly because fights are not in a dummy vacuum. Mechanics exist. Phase changes exist

If you think that people are just complaining for the sake of it, I'd argue you don't comprehend the class.

Try harder please.

[Erys]

Pretty sure they spoke in error, but their ideas are completely sound. SE already made BotD completely irrelevant with SB DRG.

LotD is not always at 23 seconds even if performed perfectly because fights are not in a dummy vacuum. Mechanics exist. Phase changes exist

If you think that people are just complaining for the sake of it, I'd argue you don't comprehend the class.

Try harder please.

Sure because their idea of disrupting the flow of the class and the line up with buffs is better than just tweaking potencies and making it actually rewarding. Another alternative would be giving Jump the Geirskogul treatment, making it High Jump under LotD and giving it a 10s cd. Or making it into Final Chorus the attack Nidhogg uses on phase transition to Estinien form, make it have a short cast bar and stupid high potency, give it the exact same animation as Final Chorus. Would fit more thematically with nastrond.
Let's have a blood for blood full of nothing, yay. Quantity over quality of Nastronds, yay. An even easier rotation, yay. Let's get called dumbrotation dps again, yay.

[YiznoBergerFett]

my biggest frustration is with fights like susano. with a good group but the time you are ready to LOTD... he transitions to sword phase. The cinematic is long enough that you can't maintain BotD and get the combo off to keep it rolling so typically you build up for the "big bursty pay off" and then boom mechanics/cinematics and you start over.

it happens in deltascape 3 as well, its just the timing of the mechanics and phase changes happen at times where there is no way to not lose the 4 stacks built up.

if that didn't happen then getting eyes during LotD would be relevant but the problem for me is that there are straight mechanics that just reset all our ramp up and there is nothing we can do about it.

[Erys]

susano again

Either hold 2nd geirskogul if your group is not that fast or if your group is fast just refresh botd when it has one second left and blow 2 nastronds on the sword.
For V3 there's pretty much nothing you can do but blow Nastrond as early as possible.

[Nyghtmarerobu]

Snip

You might not agree, and thats fine, but the vast majority of us, feel the clunkiness of this job. Its highly penalized with sub-par dps comparitevly to the others. How is this fair? I play my job as close to optimally as I can, and I can't even get close to the other dps. So what, I bring a few buffs to the table for the others? Dragon Sight? Don't make me laugh, that isn't intresting or intuitive, thats a tether, and I have to play pad-i-cake with the other dps to make sure it doesn't break or else I lose a pretty sizable chunk of dps, since it used to be part of blood for blood. I don't want to see huge changes, but I want to see tweaks and fixes to make this job competitive. Dragoon is in a terrible spot, and once savage hits, you will notice it in full swing if nothing is done. This is going to be the paladin of heavensward, an entire xpac buffing and buffing and buffing with zero results.

[Erys]

Snip

That's why I talked about increases in potencies. Also dragoon was a high risk-high reward in heavensward. Right now is high risk-low reward, which makes zero sense.
The job flows well, what doesn't work is the moment we get to our 70 skill and it's jackshit damage.

Never said anything about Dragon Sight, I just don't mind it. If my dps partner moves away unnecessarily I just do a simple thing, tether a tank and use True North. Dragon sight for me is a non issue. But I saw an idea in this thread that I liked and upvoted, which is make dragon sight 2 tethers, blue when out of range and red when in range (with a higher buff if you are in range but not fucking you up greatly if you disengage). I would like that change but I don't find it absolutely necessary. In the end I'm just going to press Dragon Sight on cd and pray my melee partner is not dumb enough to go to cardinal positionals instead of dancing in the edge of rear/flank.
This happened already with Battle Litany, when you get a blm in your party or in general with your healers, because they go unnecessarily far to dodge stuff or stand at the edge of the arena in the pull.

The job almost plays itself, it's far from clunky except for our friend and neighbour Spid... mirage dive. Anyways if I want easy mode I'll go samurai or rdm. In the end I just love 3.x dragoon and 4.0 only heightens it, just with subpar increase in damage which is easily corrected with potency changes.

[Nyghtmarerobu]

Snip

I loved dragoon in 3.0, and what it is now is a cluster fuck of shit. Because if you want to get down to it, the job is VERY easy. Manage CD's around Nastrond and LoTD. Rotation is so simple I could teach my 7 year old. The problem lies in the clunkiness of how annoyingly difficult it is to get eyes quickly, and keep them going over long periods of downtime. I can let a 30 second timer of BoTD run down, and re-up it at 1 second, to refresh the timer, but even 45 seconds is not enough for most phase transitions. Either way, it needs more work than just potencies.. It needs some quality of life changes..

Also, Dragoon isn't a high-risk high-reward job anymore... its a melee bard, relegated to "Disembowl Bitch" and "Where's my Litanny?!"

[Erys]

1)I loved dragoon in 3.0, and what it is now is a cluster fuck of shit.
2)I can let a 30 second timer of BoTD run down, and re-up it at 1 second, to refresh the timer, but even 45 seconds is not enough for most phase transitions. Either way, it needs more work than just potencies.. It needs some quality of life changes..
3)Also, Dragoon isn't a high-risk high-reward job anymore... its a melee bard, relegated to "Disembowl Bitch" and "Where's my Litanny?!"

1)Currently it's the same as 3.0, only difference is you can't burn Geirskoguls because "downtime is coming, better not waste BotD". So you not loving it as is now, makes 0 sense.
2)We have 3 fights with long enough downtime to make us lose BotD. Shinryuu, Lakshmi and V3. You can argue 4 if Susano loves to keep you in a gaol at the most awkward times, but that's rng. 2 out of the total 6 current endgame fights lose us BotD. They are less than half but enough to be mildly annoying, just have to live with it, we can't get every fight catered to us.
3)The risk factor is still there, we are affected the most by mechanics. And if we dance accordingly we get a low reward. Thus why I said dragoon is currently high risk-low reward unlike heavensward.

[SunnyHirose]

In That Other MMO there are/were plenty of mechanics similar to what the Gaze and BotD systems are supposed to accomplish, but it at least has the good graces to let you stack way past what you technically need in most of these cases (often double). It gives you flexibility on when to spend it. Contrary to what one might suspect at first glance, this sort of idea shores up skill gap somewhat (because knowledgeable but lesser skilled players can and should prioritize what's powerful instead of what's tricky), and allows peak performance players to stay closer to what they could get on a dummy, hence less fight-specific knowledge is relevant to the work of tuning.

So it's not an unsound idea on the whole, honestly. But its current implementation still runs contrary to how the rest of the game works and has worked since ARR. A "synergy" damage dealer whose own damage cannot hope to benefit from anyone else's synergy skills sounds a little off to me.