SE concern about HP Inflation doesn't make sense with existing tank gear

[ADVSS]

I don't know if this is how it was in 2.x since I haven't looked at the gear, but in 3.x the VIT:STR ratio on gear increased as ilvl increased. Basically, we gained more HP relative to the strength we were getting as we went from ilvl 180 to 240. With VIT as an attack power stat, if they wanted to lower that ratio then tank AP scaling would get messed up.

2.x was just like how it is now, except you could use str accessories, You couldnt meld str onto vit acc outside of crafted ones, which were basically being used into HW beginnings. So you had pretty much the exact same toxicity going on, with some tanks using str accessories. Basically we took a step 4 years backwards with their decision to make it str again, except now you cant even wear level appropriate ones. The upside is that you can meld str onto vit accessories, but even so you'll only be able to have that increase maximum be based on str6s. So while every tier of tome gear/raid gear will add more str/dex/mnd/int onto every other job, giving them higher damage/enmity, and healing power, tanks will flatline with their max increase only being str6 and whatever extra the left side gear gives. Personally, I think the real reason for this is to curb tank DPS. For now, things like enmity are fine, but eventually the scaling will get so bad they will become an issue,technically they probably could still go the majority of the expansion without changing how it is, but eventually the power creep will add up. And for the tanks, it isnt fair to have stats change every half a year like this, I mean a definite change would be welcome, Vit scaling would make more sense, but I have a rough feeling that this whole accessory thing, is not the worst to come. As far as the boost to enmity for lower level tanks, well...either 1 of 2 outcomes can occur.

1 They get rid of Tank stance, since its barely being used, jokes on everyone they officially curbed damage enough to where you wish you could swap. Considering the concern for taxing healers though this one seems unlikely.

2They keep tanking how it is, undo the enmity gains in that combo and drop Tank Stance to level 10 -15, giving tanks the ability to swap, but impossible to hold hate outside the stance, while keeping a comparable scaling damage outside of Stance.
This probably wouldnt get implemented before 5.0.

Mosy likely though, they reverse what they did with piety, and make Tenacity a main stat, either have it mix with strength or flat out replace strength, then put it on accessories

[testname]

I think it makes more sense if you think in relation to AP (since VIT affected both). Say they want tank AP to be a certain amount for aggro or for DPS (which requires a certain amount of VIT). Then HP would inadvertently be increased as well.

I'm not exactly happy with the change either, but fundamentally what it comes down to is that two stats are hard to tune independently when they're both dependent on one stat.

• Damage Calculations for Tank Roles■

Lastly, players have expressed concern that enmity is difficult to sustain. Some have taken to using ilv 270 STR accessories to address the issue, and numerous measures have been put forth. We've received requests for damage calculations to be made VIT-based again, like they were during the 3.X patch series. As VIT also influences HP, however, adjusting it is liable to lead to HP inflation, and so we have no plan to adopt this method at present. (VIT-based damage was deemed workable during 3.X and was employed in the interim.)

However, as ilv 270 STR accessories don't increase HP, this places an increased burden upon healers, and we are working to address the issue by 4.05. While we must ask for your patience, please rest assured that we are working on this as a matter of priority.

It does not make sense, because from Dev quote, the said HP inflation, no one said AP concern.

Thus all gear we have to equip is VIT based <-----

They talk even about FF XIV or other...?
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It is simple if they afraid of HP inflation, then why they give us all gear LOCKED for VIT BASED?
Every peace of 320ilvl HAS VITALITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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We can't put materia vit to caped vit gear, so I don't see any HP inflation at all
^ if we had attack power based from vit, we would have more attack not HP inflated,
however Devs do not see that?

[ADVSS]

It does not make sense, because from Dev quote, the said HP inflation, no one said AP concern.
Thus all gear we have to equip is VIT based
I am stupid or they and we talk about other game?

No, youre not, we are talking about the same game. What they probably are trying to say is that theyre lowering Vit gains per i level to keep tank hp from jumping so increadibly hight. In 2.x tanks pushing 10k hp was a big thing, get to the end of HW and theyre pushing over 30k, Although this is something to just expect with a higher level and all, so i dunno

bottom line is casters right now have the same hp as tanks did at the end of HW as an example. However relevant this is to them is anyones guess.

as far as AP is concerned, it seems pretty obvious to me with the restriction of Str accessories that that is the bigger deal in a nutshell. And either theyre trying to plummet Vit gains bad enough that thats not a viable option with scaling even, or they dont want to use vit because it gets too high and scales higher on tanks in the long run than any other stat for the other roles.

[Reynhart]

Say from item level 320 to 340 the devs decide HP is increasing too quickly, they can reduce the amount gained from 340 to 360. If attack power is tied to VIT then that also screws attack power and requires a change to the AP formula (which is sloppy, like constantly tweaking enmity modifiers)

But with the recent change, they simply ensure that future accessories won't increase damage at all (on the "main stat" part), so attack power is screwed anyway.
It would have made more sense to talk about "Tank damage inflation", in the sense that increasing HP more and more would also increase damage a lot.

[Brannigan]

But with the recent change, they simply ensure that future accessories won't increase damage at all (on the "main stat" part), so attack power is screwed anyway.

This is irrelevant. The point is to have HP and AP isolated from each other so that they can adjust HP values without affecting AP. Even with .45Vit/.45Str they could do that by adjusting the Vit:HP formula, but the problem is that affects people of ALL gear levels. Maybe they just want item level 400 tanks to be at a certain HP value, but are fine with item level 350 HP. How do they change that? By changing the amount of Vit on the i400 gear. The problem with that is that it throws off their projections for tank attack power at that ilvl (if you get AP from Vit), which they might have been fine with before. When all of your AP is on strength, they can tweak tank HP without having any impact on their damage dealt.

2.x was just like how it is now

The stuff you're posting here is replying to something I didn't write. I know what tanks did with their accessories in 2.0 - I'm talking about the Vitality-to-Strength ratio on armor as it relates to increasing item level through the expansion. I don't remember the exact numbers, but in Heavensward an item level 190 body had something close to 5% more vitality than strength, but by item level 240 that had increased to 12% more vitality than strength.

[SyzzleSpark]

SE listen up I'm going to fix this problem for you right now.

1 VIT = 0.8 AP.
1 STR = 0.0 AP.

Bam. Now we no longer have to endlessly pontificate about our stats, we have only one, its VIT, and it scales in such a way that we deal good damage but notably less than DPS.

You're welcome.

[Reynhart]

SE listen up I'm going to fix this problem for you right now.

My guess is that they will lock previous STR acc like they did with the new ones. No more choice, no more problem.

[SyzzleSpark]

snip

Why do they need to adjust our HP values? Moreover, when have they ever done this? The only thing they've ever adjusted is our attack power. We're the ones adjusting our HP values.

The ratio of HP to STR on left side pieces means nothing because it does not scale exponentially any more than it does on any other piece of gear with both of those stats. The only way I can make sense of what you're saying is/was in relation to accessories post 3.2, wherein we would have an ever-growing amount of VIT, only ever accompanied by a static 15 STR from the grade V materia.

It just doesn't make sense. They're phrasing it like they're at the mercy of the way they've coded the game and gear and item levels. If they can do stupid crap like arbitrarily coding Inner Beast and Souleater to trend down from a 100% heal to an 88.4% heal across 10 character levels, they can scale our attack power however they like off a single stat, even across increasing item levels. I'm still not understanding where HP comes into the equation or how it was ever a point of controversy. If they don't want us having more HP here's an idea: make the content hit harder than a soggy washcloth.

Sorry this post reads like I'm yelling at you, its directed at SE, you're just bringing up all sorts of triggering, logic-devoid points that they've made.

[Kitfox]

The point is to have HP and AP isolated from each other so that they can adjust HP values without affecting AP.

This guy gets it.

Furthermore:

It's a balancing problem.

Increasing tank DPS through VIT has these possible side-effects:
-Tank eHP is increased in comparison to incoming damage
-Non-tank eHP is reduced if tank eHP is balanced by increasing incoming damage

Likewise, reducing tank DPS through VIT has the opposite side-effects:
-Tank eHP is reduced in comparison to incoming damage
-Non-tank eHP is increased if tank eHP is balanced by reducing incoming damage

[Erudito]

If they are that worried about HP inflation, chop the VIT from accessories in half and add in strength. There, meta people happy and HP bloat subverted.