Tanks that think they are DPS, just stop...

[BlackironTarkus]

I think depsite of you being a healer, a tank or a dps, the any class should be having fun while playing that class.... i play healer because i like multi-tasking, dpsing while keeping people alive, i also play DPS when i dont want to babysit people, because i like to maximise my dmg.... Tanks play tanks because they like to be in the front line and mitigate damage but also DPSing, if the tanks themselves are nto having fun because of their dmg being too low, do you think the right solution is just go and yell at them "GET OVER IT AND KEEP TANKING SO I CAN KEEP DOING MY DPS STUFF! " well, longer Ques for you then.

Yeah you really hit the nail in the head. For me and I think a lot of us, the power fantasy of playing a tank isn't about being an immovable wall (it somewhat is) but also being in the middle of the cluster fuck and throwing down with entire groups or with big bosses as equals. That we should be threatening enough that the things feel like their only hope is taking us down first but we're really acting as the wall for our more threatening but squishier friends to do their work.

[Tegernako]

You know who you are. stop complaining about your DPS numbers and hold aggro with aggro builder combos, and if DPS die because of they casually ripped aggro off you then that is your fault because you didn't hold aggro on that 1 trash mob. if they used an AoE, then that is their fault. Do you job as a tank and hold aggro. Because I already am.

I found the person who actually wants to delete WAR.

Never mind that SE actively gives tanks DPS tools, a DPS stance, and has an entire job the revolves around all of its utility doing damage at some point. Not to mention a level 70 ability that's literally all about doing damage.

Also I do damage and hold aggro. I do my job and I do it better then you apparently.

[Yonanja]

My thoughts on this matter are: I use all my abilities, that includes the dps ones... however, if you want me to use non-tanking gear that's not aimed at survivability, then you'd have to pay me. I've lost count of how many times I've been down around 5-6k Hp during extremes and other encounters, even with pretty good healers, if I were using the old str gear... I would have been dead a couple of thousand HPs before that point. Those str accessories lowers Hp by almost 10k, which out of a tanking perspective is a moronic choice (in my opinion overcourse). No small increase in dps and 15ish% is rather low for a tank, is worth risking a wipe for, considering that 1 minute won't change anything.

[Hruodig]

My thoughts on this matter are: I use all my abilities, that includes the dps ones... however, if you want me to use non-tanking gear that's not aimed at survivability, then you'd have to pay me. I've lost count of how many times I've been down around 5-6k Hp during extremes and other encounters, even with pretty good healers, if I were using the old str gear... I would have been dead a couple of thousand HPs before that point. Those str accessories lowers Hp by almost 10k, which out of a tanking perspective is a moronic choice (in my opinion overcourse). No small increase in dps and 15ish% is rather low for a tank, is worth risking a wipe for, considering that 1 minute won't change anything.

The dps increase is actually pretty substantial, anywhere from a 500-600 dps increase during the fight. I wouldn't recommend going full str if you only pug, but a couple str accs don't hurt.

[VargasVermillion]

The dps increase is actually pretty substantial, anywhere from a 500-600 dps increase during the fight. I wouldn't recommend going full str if you only pug, but a couple str accs don't hurt.

Personally I use 2 dps and 3 fending and swap more of each depending on the situation.

[Hruodig]

Personally I use 2 dps and 3 fending and swap more of each depending on the situation.

That's what I do if I have to play with pugs/my more casual friends. If I'm with my static though, I go full str.

[phishstix]

This thread has been interesting to read. This seems to be one of the few traditional MMOS (and not an AMMORPG like TERA or BnS) that has this debate recently. WoWs Warrior's Defensive stance works in much the same way as Grit although the damage penalty is much lower. But I think maybe because tanks over there are more worried about their mitigation, and damage is secondary. The contrast is striking.

I seriously hope you guys come to a conclusion, but either way SE has the final say on tanking changes and they seem determined to stamp out the unintentional meta. It could be worse. They could be increase mob damage (which was done indirectly because mobs can direct hit you as well as crit you now) and boss auto-attack damage to the point where leaving your tank stance is a 100% death sentence for the most part. All I know is that whatever happens the tanks we lost this expansion probably won't come back unless a reversal happens or they have much better changes coming.

[Soraki-Muppe]

either way SE has the final say on tanking changes and they seem determined to stamp out the unintentional meta.

On one hand they are doing that, but then they continue designing fights along the same line that created said meta. If SE really want to get rid of that meta then they have to do so by designing fights where this meta is not in any way optional and not by just messing around with the jobs and expect it to be fixed.
If a high amount of hp and a ton of mitigation was most optimal then the meta would change in that direction by itself, I do personally think that way of changing a meta is better then SE telling us that tanks need to be tanky without designing any fights around tanks needing to be tanky... heck they even failed on most fights to insert a reason for two tanks.

[HeroIgnis]

I think depsite of you being a healer, a tank or a dps, the any class should be having fun while playing that class.... i play healer because i like multi-tasking, dpsing while keeping people alive, i also play DPS when i dont want to babysit people, because i like to maximise my dmg.... Tanks play tanks because they like to be in the front line and mitigate damage but also DPSing, if the tanks themselves are nto having fun because of their dmg being too low, do you think the right solution is just go and yell at them "GET OVER IT AND KEEP TANKING SO I CAN KEEP DOING MY DPS STUFF! " well, longer Ques for you then.

Well said sir, imagine how boring it would be to just spamming flash, overpower, or unleash all the time and using defensive cooldown here and there. Imagine just spamming cures, no buffs, no debuffs, no dots. Imagine not having defensive cooldown or self healing. If people keep making this ridiculous argument and the dev implement it, this game is gonna get real boring real fast.

[Reokotsae]

People do realize that. We think it's a dumb change because that temporary system, while not perfect, still worked a lot better than what we have now.

it's only not working to people that feel tanks should have to be a bigger portion of a groups dps. Square enix disagrees the direction they are pushing tanks and healers is away from that mentality. This games community has always been polarized really strangely around this issue. I personally feel tanks and healers shouldn't be a major contributer to the groups damage output and should have more focus on utility based damage for the dps members like ast sits atm.

It's both more accessible for newer players and gives more common ground for encounter balance. (where things like double warriors in HW were essentially adding 2 dps trivialising some content thus becoming required in the communities eyes)