The endless battle - Tank attributes

[Kothos]

You get STR upgrades on left side gear from raids, you're fine. Besides tanks job is to absorb damage, dealing it is just an afterthought.

You're tanks not DPS, and raids are calculated based on basic tank damage output in tank stance nd DPS's damage rotations. Healers damage isnt taken into account, and obviously raid will be balanced around tank DPS in full VIT gear. So don't worry, babe.

And the same mantra is spoken. Could please tell me your experience with tanking so I can understand you

[Jonnycbad]

Hell, if they actually put scaling mitigation on raid drops that'd be wonderful.

They do, it's called Defense and Magic Defense.

[Jonnycbad]

And the same mantra is spoken. Could please tell me your experience with tanking so I can understand you

Tank DPS is the meta that *players* derived. But from SE's point of view it's not necessary, it's extra. They said raid boss HP is not alculated based on damage dealt by tanks in DPS stance, but players push MT DPS anyway to beat content faster. Beating content faster or at minimum iLVL is something 1-5% of the player base cares about. SE did not intend for people to beat Gordias sdavage at i170 or whatever the min iLVL was upon release, they expected players to be i190 first from stocking up on gordias normal gear. But players did it anyway at the min ILVL by overmelding gear and pushing tank DPS and using potions.

That's all well and good and from the players POV tank and healer DPS is integtral for that, but not to SE. So saying tank DPS being lower due to STR is a developer's oversight: it's not. It's players assuming the developers should play by the players' rules and not vice versa.

I doubt SE intends for a MT to just do 1 enmity combo in tank stance at the start of the fight and then rock DPS stance the rest of the fight. That's not tanking, that's not managing enmity. That's DPSing with using defensive cooldowns occasionally to lower your healing burden sometimes.

[Eliroth-Kaminari]

hmm i see future in this:
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/116ZY

[Kothos]

snip.

Ok. I get you are so interested spamming the same speech that you completely ignored my question and said everything I already know.
I'm sorry but I must say again. My post is not talking about DPS. If you want to keep going with this there are another topics for you.

[Crater]

hmm i see future in this:
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/116ZY

That's exactly where the game's going to go if SE ends up locking 270 Slaying and not adding STR/Attack Power to raid accessories, yeah. In that case it's all going to come down to secondaries, which means that pentamelded crafted will always be BiS and raid gear will always be useless.

[aleph_null]

snip

SE's intends and pov are irrelevant to the meta. I don't care what they want me to do, I care about what I, and the people in my group can do. If I can hold enmity, mitigate and survive using dps stance and 5 slaying accs while allowing the healers in my group to do good amount of damage than that's what I'll do. Of course there will be tradeoffs between hp threshold, extra mitigation (tank stance uptime) and healer dps, but you can figure out the balance by trying out things.

It's the dev's oversight if what they intend us to be able to do doesn't match what we can actually do, and it's on them to fix/change/leave it. I don't care if the devs don't want me to do zero enmity combo in the entire fight, but if I can get away with that then I will. I don't care if the devs don't want my group healers to spend half their casts on dps spells, but if they can then they will.

[Umbreon_skystorm]

one of our major problems is that SE gave us the DPS candy back in 3.X and they stole it from us on 4.0; it was nice to see we skipping a mechanic with high dps because the tank can help with significant amount of damage among the DPS classes, but now since the tanks got this nerf on damage it feels like we are just there to tank it, I know we are tanks but come on... We want to be rewarded with the high knowledge of the class and how the mechanics works, so I think we just need some candy back, to feel acomplished to do damage, help healer with mitigations and doing our job tanking damage. if the reason was to make tanks do less damage than a Poorly played DPS, they should teach the DPS how to do their job properly (I tanked a lot of Roulette EX tanking the boss without stance and without my emmity combo without effort on 3.X).

[Shurrikhan]

To me, the questions the devs should be deciding on are simply:

- How much choice between HP and output do we want to allow tanks?
- Do we want tanks to be (viably) given the option of melding secondary stat materia?

[Kosmos992k]

SE's intends and pov are irrelevant to the meta.

By the same token, your Meta is irrelevant to SE and they will design gear and encounters around their design imperatives. They will balance skills, stats and potencies based on their criteria, not the DPS meta. If their goals conflict with the DPS meta, guess who wins?

one of our major problems is that SE gave us the DPS candy back in 3.X and they stole it from us on 4.0; it was nice to see we skipping a mechanic with high dps because the tank can help with significant amount of damage among the DPS classes, but now since the tanks got this nerf on damage it feels like we are just there to tank it, I know we are tanks but come on... We want to be rewarded with the high knowledge of the class and how the mechanics works, so I think we just need some candy back,

For DDs, their 'candy' is big gaudy damage dealt numbers. For a tank, what is 'candy'? How about shrugging off damage that would have killed everyone else? Not to mention that tank DPS should only be compared to other tank DPS. It can still be candy, but what scale do you measure by? Relative performance of course, but relative to who? If you're in the top 5% of tanks for DPS, is that candy enough, or is the fact that your PS might be 25% (don't know the real relative difference, that's just a number) below a real DD a problem?

You don't need the DPS meta to have your candy unless you are trying to keep up with damage dealers specifically designed to maximize damage dealt. If you are measuring relative to other tanks, how the damage is calculated is irrelevant. So, what is that candy and how is it's value measured?

Since the majority of the increase in damage dealt for DPS is based on their gear, the big gaudy numbers they post are gear dependent. Thinking about tanks for a moment, I'd like to see two numbers every time we are hit. What is the raw damage being one, and how much actually got through our armor, Tenacity, mitigation skills and so on. That is the measure of being a good tank, how much damage can you mitigate? That would be my candy, if I could see on screen that I'm being hit for 50,000 HP, but through various mitigations including armor, the received damage was less than 20K, That tells me that I successfully mitigated (soaked) 30+K HP through my gear and skills. That is a meaningful measure of my ability as a tank.