Tanks that think they are DPS, just stop...

[Ultimatecalibur]

The biggest problem with that is that with the changes to tank damage and the way accessories work we'll eventually reach a point where tank damage is so low when compared to DPS that the run won't be any shorter even if the tank tries to optimise DPS, if you can't contribute in a meaningful way, why try to contribute at all? Might as well just sit in tank stance and do your 1-2-3 combo like a good boy.

That is a seriously bad slippery slope argument.

You are presupposing that the only way to generate enough enmity to hold hate against dps in 4.5 if things remain unchanged is to be in tank stance spamming RoH/Power Slash/Butcher's Block combos.

A more likely scenario is that a tank in tank stance doing a proper optimized dps rotation will be able to generate enough enmity to hold hate.

[NosValk]

Its alright we've got a bright future ahead of us, we'll be able to make all them non-tanks happy.

[SyzzleSpark]

Its alright we've got a bright future ahead of us, we'll be able to make all them non-tanks happy.

I actually LOLed at this for several moments.

The metagame (god, you made me use that term) will always revolve around killing the raidbosses faster. Thus, the players will always seek ways to maximize the DPS of the party as a whole.

This is how every MMORPG ever made works. It is nothing new and is not specific to any content or era of this game.

Exactly. And @Splitinfinity, because DPS is ever-useful and will never not be, if you make it so that a skilled player can't output more DPS on a tank through motivation, practice, optimization, and experience, than a non-skilled or just unmotivated player, you remove an incentive to tank at all. "Why bother trying to tank well when I'm not actually helping my group clear any faster by doing so?"

The only way this will not be the case is if they make raid boss's DPS higher than our healers' HPS to the point where mitigating that damage becomes a teethgrinding battle for the tank. This would require a redesign of the tanks and the healers from the ground up as well as a redesign of all of the game's current content.

I prefer the simpler solution of just allowing tanks to deal good damage if they try. Threads like this basically boil down to a certain segment of the tanking population asking that they not be called out for being lazy within the game's current design, nothing more, nothing less. No one is FORCING them to not be lazy, they just don't like their little feelings getting hurt.

There is no reason why the average healthy, 20-30-something gamer with two hands, two eyes, 10 fingers, a functioning brain, and decent coordination between these elements should have trouble doing this if they put in effort.

[Splitinfinity]

I have no issue with maximizing dps by utilizing the best possible rotation as a skillcheck but from what I see its that people have an issue with having lower dps than before even when maximizing rotations. If you are a lazy tank that just spams aggro in tank stance then your dps will still suffer and you'll still get called out and rightly so. But what I question is the idea that I'm maximizing my rotations yet I can't achieve my previous numbers now I'm not content. Its SE that has done this for whatever reason. Now I dont expect people to just quietly accept it. I just think that it would be better to ask for different compensations rather than pushing for a reversal to dps when they clearly say they dont want to. They imposed a change and players can adapt to it. You can still work towards clearing raid content faster just within the new constraints SE placed. And do not presume that all people who agree with changes are lazy for wanting to play within the constraints imposed

[Falar]

I actually LOLed at this for several moments.



Exactly. And @Splitinfinity, because DPS is ever-useful and will never not be, if you make it so that a skilled player can't output more DPS on a tank through motivation, practice, optimization, and experience, than a non-skilled or just unmotivated player, you remove an incentive to tank at all. "Why bother trying to tank well when I'm not actually helping my group clear any faster by doing so?"

The only way this will not be the case is if they make raid boss's DPS higher than our healers' HPS to the point where mitigating that damage becomes a teethgrinding battle for the tank. This would require a redesign of the tanks and the healers from the ground up as well as a redesign of all of the game's current content.I prefer the simpler solution of just allowing tanks to deal good damage if they try. Threads like this basically boil down to a certain segment of the tanking population asking that they not be called out for being lazy within the game's current design, nothing more, nothing less. No one is FORCING them to not be lazy, they just don't like their little feelings getting hurt.

There is no reason why the average healthy, 20-30-something gamer with two hands, two eyes, 10 fingers, a functioning brain, and decent coordination between these elements should have trouble doing this if they put in effort.

You nailed it. It is always the same: Bad/lazy players wanting them to make the game easier.

They usually have poor understanding of the game's mechanics and/or a strange posting style that is not very coherent. Thankfully, I think they are outnumbered by the reasonable and logical voices.

[AdamZ]

A more likely scenario is that a tank in tank stance doing a proper optimized dps rotation will be able to generate enough enmity to hold hate.

Now that is some bad tank design right there. Given how 1 (WAR) is required to be in dps stance to do anything close to a optimized rotation, and a second (DRK) also does not enjoy the kit it loses in grit.

See you are all for the Pally/Pally meta.