Paladin nerf INC

[Soraki-Muppe]

Tupperware sword?

I guess that makes sense for DRK since we could store our BlackBlood in it. It better be microwave and oven safe though.

And the risk of harming yourself if you trip and fall would be way lower. Good for insurance prices.

[ChloeGrace]

It's a DPS meta, the exact reason WHY warrior was so vastly preferred in 3.x.
So now that tank dps is more or less even, you should be wanting balanced utility and mitigation as well, not whinging over the loss of dps and calling for a paladin nerf.

[Omni-Vocational_Ryan]

alright, let's break this down. (and watch SE ban this account for using sources.)
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/7JrPc...pe=damage-done

this fight is done in 6 minutes with every role doing 97 or higher so you have less time to suffer damage fall off from extending the fight and if you look at the crit rate for war vs pld the war's crits are 10-20% higher on their skills which may explain this outliner from the general trend we can see forming.

Now let's look at the fall off in the rankings

https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/15#b...l&spec=Paladin
here's paladin and everyone from rank 11 and up is breaking 3k dps(which is quite high)

https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/15#b...l&spec=Warrior
now here's war who everyone outside of rank 1 is below 3k dps

now let's compare rank by rank (pld-war)
Rank 2: 3195.7 -2,962.4 = 197.3
Rank 3: 3177.4 -2,961.4 = 216
Rank 4: 3,113.9 -2,943.8 = 190.1
Rank 5: 3,112.3 -2,932.1 = 180.2
Rank 6: 3,099.0- 2,906.0 = 193
Rank 7: 3,088.4 - 2,885.6 = 202.8
Rank 8: 3,077.4 - 2,883.2 = 194.2
Rank 9: 3,067.7 - 2,869.0 = 198.7
Rank 10: 3,012.9- 2,855.7= 157.2

you get the picture, there's a 150+ dps difference between pld and war, there's no reward for playing a more complex tank when the simple 6 button 1 button spell spam class outdpses you by 150 or more and loses 0 defensive capabilities from doing so unlike war who if they need to grab something and tank it they take a dps hit or loss access to more hp/healing, a self heal and inner beast.

Pld simply has no downside to anything it does which is why it is a broken class atm, the only punishment they get is their oath halved on oath swapping, which isn't even needed as the parses show.

[Edewen]

First off. They do not balance the game based on the top ten....
Secondly, All these numbers are skewed byt he fact that because of the dps go go go mentality, tanks are still considering 270 accesories with str the BiS for now and the entirety of stormblood.

Before any major balance changes, I see SE slapping tanks on the head and taking all str accessories away. As a Main healer, second tank, I am not looking forward to 2 years of tanks in 270 str accesories telling me to adjust to their missing 15k health.

[Omni-Vocational_Ryan]

that's great and all, but guess what? this is a dps focused game and SE hasn't "balanced" tanks in the past 2 years. the best you'll see SE do is put vit on the table again if they even will since you'd have people bitch tanks wouldn't lose dps because of death and as long as tanks hp are enough to live thru TBs there is no reason to stack more hp. welcome to gordias round 2. so Clearly SE didn't learn from that. and guess what if you force tanks into vit the number differences will still be in the same range because the kit's won't change, just the numbers they put out. they can't "fix" tanks when pld has two burst windows and no drawbacks when you compare them to the other two tanks.

those top numbers do count, because that's people in guess what? BiS. they have enough HP to live thru TBs, so they are doing their primary job, and the lesser AP hurts aggro gen too, so STR is still a better option then vit in terms of tanking because 300 AP will make a difference in holding hate.

[Stanelis]

Why nerf what isn't broken ? War and DRK just need to be revamped so they bring utility to the group too.

Currently there is one tank that is actually designed like a tank (paladin), one tank that is about 50 % a tank but still needs love in that regard (DRK) and one tank that is designed as a pseudo DPS class (war). That cannot stand as it is now. Taking into account the duty queues currently for DPS, it would be a major mistake to actually nerf the only enjoyable tank.

The big problem is that PLD simply has way to much utility. You cant fix that unless you either flat out REMOVE their stuff, or give WAR and DRK whole new things or add effects to what they have.

So long as PLD has more utility than the others, it has to lose out somewhere: either defense or damage. They can't keep it all unless square is willing to overhaul the tanks.

But they do need to overhaul DRK and WAR, there are simply no ways around it. Also there are no rules stating PLD should loose on damage due to their utility. A tank is a tank, and they do need to bring utility, and if some tank classes are merely designed like nerfed DPS classes (I m looking at the war here), people would just play a true DPS class instead (that's actually what is currently happening with how few people play tanks currently).

[vigioX-Sun]

It's the clunky playstyle of war that hurt the most, is not even the dps anymore, pld don't need a nerf, war just need a few changes to the rotation an gameplay , the drastic changes loss of utility an flow of the war is on the floor yet they got nothing to put on the table not even dps, why will they ruin such a good balance an fun class, it needs revision to the core, whoever planned war for 4.0 ..I don't even know what to say anymore..that Class needs some attention an raid is coming soon..

[Arrius]

Paladins need a better use for their gauge in Shield Oath.
Dark Knights and Warrior have multiple uses for their gauge to be spent on fancy moves in their tank stance, only to have PLD's to use it on Sheltron. And even the use of it is limited depending whenever the boss has a tankbuster or high damage moves, much less so on regular dungeon content.
Even Intervention doesn't reward a good save and is barely used outside EX Trials right now other than to spend it on the MT while you are the OT in Sword Oath.

And why bothering casting Holy Spirit anyway when in tanking stance? If you aim to get more gauge you might as well use Bulwark instead of casting HS, as that drops your parry/block/dodge and this makes you easier to hit, giving more work for the healer.

In all, PLD's got some good improvements, but lack of anything engaging on their gauge. I start doing regular 4-man runs where I don't even bother using Sheltron/Intervention, they don't feel impactful and rather boring when I have to save them for bosses only, as the use there might make a difference.

[eagledorf]

Oath gauge is great in 8-mans. You can Intervention or Sheltron basically every tank buster depending on if you're MT or OT. Only problem is Sheltron does not work if you are casting as you point out so you have to be careful not to do that.

In 4-man you should still use it. It's free mitigation.

[Arrius]

Oath gauge is great in 8-mans. You can Intervention or Sheltron basically every tank buster depending on if you're MT or OT. Only problem is Sheltron does not work if you are casting as you point out so you have to be careful not to do that.

In 4-man you should still use it. It's free mitigation.

A single, guaranteed block of the cost of 50 gauge is a drop on a hot stone when dealing with trash groups in 4-mans. Might as well pop Bulwark for that. Or any other defensive cooldown that doesn't require gauge.