Summoner Over-Nered (and A few other Problems)

[SomeRandomHuman]

I know, and I'm not debating on this. I think that Titan+Sustain was completly OP, so the nerf doesn't bother me that much. Besides, I did all my leveling with Titan-egi just fine.

Whatever the case, saying that you need a dedicated healer to keep your pet alive to it can DPS is a ridiculous argument to use to show that "SMN has been over-nerfed!"... Especially since current parses put it at the second best DPS, on par with BLM.

Near top dps or not, the removal of sustain was pointless. The tank pets were designed to allow you to do solo content in the first place. Without sustain SMN doing any kind of solo content is a massive pain in the rear because everything hits so hard and you have to MP burn to just survive half the time in fate soloing.

Look at it like this: Not being able to sustain tank pets is like playing a tank and never repairing your gear after it breaks.

If you're going to argue it's ok, then make it so scholars can't summon the fairies outside of DF/RF content and see how that goes. It'll be the same thing basically.

[Fyce]

-snip-

I understand what Exterium meant when saying that it was like talking to a wall.

Okay, you win. I don't have time for this. Sustain is an awesome skill that you need to use all the time in duties because your pet in constantly dying for whatever reason, and boss cleaves (like A12S where it's the most likely to happen) don't kill your pet and you're able to save it with Sustain.
I'm clearly not playing the same game as you, so I can't relate. I haven't used Sustain in a year, and I use Titan-egi for solo stuff all the time just fine.

Sorry that the loss of Sustain makes you unable to play correctly. We'll have to agree to disagree, because it doesn't affect me the slightest.

[Liii]

Sustain is used in 4man content and below during 3.0. I would have no qualms with them taking it away if they gave smn some form of survivability (and if they don\\'t pull another midgardsormir, secs have crap consistency with pet invuln coding) We have no self heal worth a damn and our tank pet works against our lvl 70 skill. To discourage using titan and give us nothing in return feels horrible. Now flash forward to 4.0 I personally have not made it to end game content on my smn because irl issues but my friend who\\'/ raced there and pretty much cleared everything says that pets now take incredibly INCREASED damage from mechanics in end game than they usually do and they do die a lot now. With the increasing need to MOVE your pet closer to melee range for devotion (fuck this skill) and the increased use of ifrit the chances of death are higher. A cleave may outright kill them, but a ground aoe won\\'t outright, but take a huge chunk and we now have no way to heal them. Can\\'t dodge on pet bc they\\'re still janky as nuts to control and movement = dps loss.

Tldr; would not mind sustain removal if they didn\\'t make current pets take increased dmg compared to 3.0 and if our current skills and the current remake of radiant shield didn\\'t require us to move them in dangers path even more while still discouraging re-summoning in general.

[Higashikata]

*Sees crying about sustain*
Just use garuda/ifrit and spam drain instead of ruin.

[SomeRandomHuman]

*Sees crying about sustain*
Just use garuda/ifrit and spam drain instead of ruin.

You're missing the fact that pets still take damage in DF content and most healers don't go out of their way to heal your pet which costs a good chunk of MP to resummons and use your swiftcast. You're entire post is just pretty much a shitpost as it contributes nothing.

[Ariomi]

Okay, you win. I don't have time for this. Sustain is an awesome skill that you need to use all the time in duties because your pet in constantly dying for whatever reason, and boss cleaves (like A12S where it's the most likely to happen) don't kill your pet and you're able to save it with Sustain.
I'm clearly not playing the same game as you, so I can't relate. I haven't used Sustain in a year, and I use Titan-egi for solo stuff all the time just fine.

Try beating a12s without echo (without handicap) before you throw around insults. (feel free to look me up. I have better numbers then you do and I didn't have a bard in my group ) And not sure you noticed, or your too stubborn to take notice, but no other class in the game can have 20% of their dps die and then suffer such a large penalty for it. You completely ignore that Machinist, the class closest to play style in summoner can have their turret die. It doesn't cost them any mp/tp/dps to re-summon it. Their turret is instant cast and has a 10 second cooldown. Pets are effected by more aoe damage this expansion compared to heavensward.You would be whining like the rest of us if your pet died after every mega holy, almost holy, or after defamation. There are cases like this in stormblood where your pet can get hit by everything, and you are spending needless amounts of mp to keep it alive. More Mp spent on pet = Less mp to use on spells and less time attacking.

Meanwhile Monk/Samurai/Ninja/Dragoon/Machinist/Bard/Red Mage/Black Mage don't have to spend any mp to swiftcast rez 25% of their dps.

[Ariomi]

Actually, currently Smn is just behind Samurai in the way of Dps. This is the chart of all the dps jobs that been parsed

And the actual dps numbers are out.

Aiuri Ai Mch #8
Sargatanas (NA)
4.0 3,660.4

Eirene Snow Smn #7
Elvellon on Tonberry (JP)
4.0 4,057.9 dps

Cupcake Corgi Red Mage #6
Sargatanas (NA)
4.0 4,200.6

Sasaro Saro Ninja #5
Ragnarok (EU)
4.0 4,350.9 Dps

Doogy Frostwhite Blm #4
Gilgamesh (NA)
4.0 4,384. dps

Aura L'afell Bard #3
Sargatanas (NA)
4.0 4,451.5 dps

Yud Tnb Monk #2 Highest
Belias (JP)
4.0 4,536.2 dps

Aix Len Samurai #1 Highest
Garuda (JP)
4.0 5,002.0 Dps


These are the top dps according to their class. Notice how bard went from Number 8 to Number 3. Summoner went from second best to second worst. These are the actual dps numbers, not some screenshot.

[Kazrah]

And the actual dps numbers are out.

Aiuri Ai Mch #8
Sargatanas (NA)
4.0 3,660.4

Eirene Snow Smn #7
Elvellon on Tonberry (JP)
4.0 4,057.9 dps

Cupcake Corgi Red Mage #6
Sargatanas (NA)
4.0 4,200.6

Sasaro Saro Ninja #5
Ragnarok (EU)
4.0 4,350.9 Dps

Doogy Frostwhite Blm #4
Gilgamesh (NA)
4.0 4,384. dps

Aura L'afell Bard #3
Sargatanas (NA)
4.0 4,451.5 dps

Yud Tnb Monk #2 Highest
Belias (JP)
4.0 4,536.2 dps

Aix Len Samurai #1 Highest
Garuda (JP)
4.0 5,002.0 Dps


These are the top dps according to their class. Notice how bard went from Number 8 to Number 3. Summoner went from second best to second worst. These are the actual dps numbers, not some screenshot.

1) Where's your source for these numbers?

2) With the exceptions of those in first and last place, SMN still looks like it's doing relatively okay based off those probably-flexible numbers.

3) One thing that both sets of numbers agree on is that SMNs need to stop whining and be thankful they aren't playing MCH, although that could probably be because after two weeks, no one has figured out MCH yet.

[Jeykama]

Can we not use contextless numbers? What were they fighting (assuming none of them had to do mechanics), what was the comp, what was the %uptime on balance feeding. Were there adds to multidot, etc.

It's contextless numbers like this that give parsers a bad rep.

[Ariomi]

Can we not use contextless numbers? What were they fighting (assuming none of them had to do mechanics), what was the comp, what was the %uptime on balance feeding. Were there adds to multidot, etc.

It's contextless numbers like this that give parsers a bad rep.

Those numbers were taken from the same fight, (Susanoo Ex) and were the very top dps from their respective job class. They were all doing the same fight with the same mechanics and represent the highest numbers that class can do in that situation.

Smn being 4k dps in the best scenario opposed to most classes being around 4200-4500 with Samurai at 5000 dps.

The only class worse then Summoner was Machinist at 3600 dps. Paladins and warriors can reach around 3200 dps.

Bad rep? Hardly. Using hard concrete facts like dps numbers to prove that summoner was nerfed too hard too much for you?