Summoner Over-Nered (and A few other Problems)

[Bigcat9715]

Actually, currently Smn is just behind Samurai in the way of Dps. This is the chart of all the dps jobs that been parsed

also a video of a Smn destroying a SSS dummy. Link

[Ariomi]

Actually, currently Smn is just behind Samurai in the way of Dps. ]

And yet, As an Ilvl 296 Summoner, using almost that same rotation, I can't beat the dummy for the Menagerie. A fight I've already cleared.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS6x8Gy-DwM

Here's a video of My rotation on an ilevel 280 dummy.

The Menagerie. IF you see something that I am doing wrong that is preventing me from beating a fight I'm 16 Ilvl over. I would love to be enlightened about how I should fix my opener.

[Ariomi]

Actually, currently Smn is just behind Samurai in the way of Dps. This is the chart of all the dps jobs that been parsed

And the actual dps numbers are out.

Aiuri Ai Mch #8
Sargatanas (NA)
4.0 3,660.4

Eirene Snow Smn #7
Elvellon on Tonberry (JP)
4.0 4,057.9 dps

Cupcake Corgi Red Mage #6
Sargatanas (NA)
4.0 4,200.6

Sasaro Saro Ninja #5
Ragnarok (EU)
4.0 4,350.9 Dps

Doogy Frostwhite Blm #4
Gilgamesh (NA)
4.0 4,384. dps

Aura L'afell Bard #3
Sargatanas (NA)
4.0 4,451.5 dps

Yud Tnb Monk #2 Highest
Belias (JP)
4.0 4,536.2 dps

Aix Len Samurai #1 Highest
Garuda (JP)
4.0 5,002.0 Dps


These are the top dps according to their class. Notice how bard went from Number 8 to Number 3. Summoner went from second best to second worst. These are the actual dps numbers, not some screenshot.

[Kazrah]

And the actual dps numbers are out.

Aiuri Ai Mch #8
Sargatanas (NA)
4.0 3,660.4

Eirene Snow Smn #7
Elvellon on Tonberry (JP)
4.0 4,057.9 dps

Cupcake Corgi Red Mage #6
Sargatanas (NA)
4.0 4,200.6

Sasaro Saro Ninja #5
Ragnarok (EU)
4.0 4,350.9 Dps

Doogy Frostwhite Blm #4
Gilgamesh (NA)
4.0 4,384. dps

Aura L'afell Bard #3
Sargatanas (NA)
4.0 4,451.5 dps

Yud Tnb Monk #2 Highest
Belias (JP)
4.0 4,536.2 dps

Aix Len Samurai #1 Highest
Garuda (JP)
4.0 5,002.0 Dps


These are the top dps according to their class. Notice how bard went from Number 8 to Number 3. Summoner went from second best to second worst. These are the actual dps numbers, not some screenshot.

1) Where's your source for these numbers?

2) With the exceptions of those in first and last place, SMN still looks like it's doing relatively okay based off those probably-flexible numbers.

3) One thing that both sets of numbers agree on is that SMNs need to stop whining and be thankful they aren't playing MCH, although that could probably be because after two weeks, no one has figured out MCH yet.

[Jeykama]

Can we not use contextless numbers? What were they fighting (assuming none of them had to do mechanics), what was the comp, what was the %uptime on balance feeding. Were there adds to multidot, etc.

It's contextless numbers like this that give parsers a bad rep.

[Ariomi]

Can we not use contextless numbers? What were they fighting (assuming none of them had to do mechanics), what was the comp, what was the %uptime on balance feeding. Were there adds to multidot, etc.

It's contextless numbers like this that give parsers a bad rep.

Those numbers were taken from the same fight, (Susanoo Ex) and were the very top dps from their respective job class. They were all doing the same fight with the same mechanics and represent the highest numbers that class can do in that situation.

Smn being 4k dps in the best scenario opposed to most classes being around 4200-4500 with Samurai at 5000 dps.

The only class worse then Summoner was Machinist at 3600 dps. Paladins and warriors can reach around 3200 dps.

Bad rep? Hardly. Using hard concrete facts like dps numbers to prove that summoner was nerfed too hard too much for you?

[Jeykama]

Those numbers were taken from the same fight, (Susanoo Ex) and were the very top dps from their respective job class. They were all doing the same fight with the same mechanics and represent the highest numbers that class can do in that situation.

Smn being 4k dps in the best scenario opposed to most classes being around 4200-4500 with Samurai at 5000 dps.

The only class worse then Summoner was Machinist at 3600 dps. Paladins and warriors can reach around 3200 dps.

Bad rep? Hardly. Using hard concrete facts like dps numbers to prove that summoner was nerfed too hard too much for you?

Bad rep is pulling out numbers without explaining what created them. For all I had known you had pulled out those numbers from all fight sources, like some random trash pack for BRD. Knowing it's just a single target fight is better.
There is still no answer about balance padding or comp for buffs/debuffs though. For all we know the SAM had 100% Balance uptime and full physical dps synergy and the SMN had nothing.

[Ariomi]

Bad rep is pulling out numbers without explaining what created them. For all I had known you had pulled out those numbers from all fight sources, like some random trash pack for BRD. Knowing it's just a single target fight is better.
There is still no answer about balance padding or comp for buffs/debuffs though. For all we know the SAM had 100% Balance uptime and full physical dps synergy and the SMN had nothing.

And I explained where I first posted the numbers that these were the highest dps numbers of each respective class. Both fights with the Samurai and the summoner had balance uptime of around 53-56% (Act is great for looking at things and comparing! I can click at both fights and get the very exact details of each class!)

And if the top summoner, which is currently at 4k dps, is compared to the other classes, it's clearly lacking. You can say oh well Summoner has better Aoe, except that deathflare was nerfed, and bane was nerfed heavily. Bane went from 110 potency per tick to 80 potency per tick with increased fall off damage per add. Oh and Summoner's strongest spammable Aoe (Meaning not requiring a minute, two minute or three minute* cooldown) is 30 potency.

[Jeykama]

And I explained where I first posted the numbers that these were the highest dps numbers of each respective class. Both fights with the Samurai and the summoner had balance uptime of around 53-56% (Act is great for looking at things and comparing! I can click at both fights and get the very exact details of each class!)

When you posted those numbers you said nothing of the sort about that context, all I see still are numbers and jobs in that post. The burden of proof is on you if you're going to pull numbers out and try to prove a point, all I'm saying. It's like saying this game is dying by cherry-picking pop numbers taken at daytime pop 3.0 (sam with 100% enhanced balance) vs. night-time pop 3.5 (SMN with no cards). If the SMN and SAM both had enhanced balance with 50% uptime cool, your numbers actually mean something.

On the other hand Susano is an extremely melee high-uptime fight if you don't have to do mechanics and aoe are baited well, and high-uptime have always been SMN's weakness because of the nature of dots.
I think SAM being so high is more worrisome than SMN being so "low".

[Neophyte]

And if the top summoner, which is currently at 4k dps, is compared to the other classes, it's clearly lacking. You can say oh well Summoner has better Aoe, except that deathflare was nerfed, and bane was nerfed heavily. Bane wentfrom 110 potency per tick to 80 potency per tick with increased fall off damage per add. Oh and Summoner's strongest spammable Aoe (Meaning not requiring a minute, two minute or three minute* cooldown) is 30 potency.

Doesn't change the fact that an add at the right time is a 600-800 potency gain for SMN, while it's a smaller potency gain for RDM or maybe none at all (e.g. he has opportunity costs if delaying Contre-Sixt, other than a SMN delaying painflare).
Adds don't rain randomly from the sky. Usually people know when they come up.

A SMN in a A9s similar fight would do the adds almost alone without any single target dps loss (maybe 100-200 pot), while RDM and every other class has way higher costs for tossing some AoE out or are way weaker doing that.

Bahamut and DWT, as well as the usage of Painflare (i.e. "your stacks") is at least a bit flexible. As long as you don't delay the usage of aetherflow itself you can delay your oGCD rotation without too much loss.
A SMN has, without much trouble, always the big boom ready when he needs it.

_______

A SMN can adjust to such things with big dps gains liberating all 7 others players from bothering about adds, what can a RDM do? He can switch to scatter (wow) when adds are coming up and maybe can use his 200 pot cleave, but therefore lose his strongest single target spell (Verholy/-flare Needs a single target melee combo).

A fight like A1S with two targets up for 75% of the fight or big adds in A12s? Advantage for SMN (and BRD as well).

Stop looking at training dolls or just 1-2 (quite similar) fights..