Job potions and newbies - let's not double standard ^^

[ADVSS]

And for the players defending their "It's not my job to teach them how to play", you don't have to. No one's even asking you to. . . But don't think you got where you are alone. You can affect the change you want to see, or you can be stubborn and look down upon someone who, if given proper guidance, could become just as good as you.

False. Last night went into a 50-60 with my friend tanking. Both dps and healer were new. Got keeper of the lake and "explain" was posted every boss. Even after explaining they deliberately ignored the explanation and waymarks i placed. I get exactly why people are upset.

[MirielleLavandre]

Thanks for the input all - good conversation and debate. Someone wondered back there somewhere what the point of the thread was: the point is that I was seeing 'potion jumpers' being harassed/berated for their choice to jump, and I wanted to point out that many of us may be forgetting that they are just like sprouts (new to the game). That's all my point was - and to mention that just like we often (I hope) have a lil more tolerance for sprouts, we should extend that to potion users [at least in my opinion]. I understand the difference, but as many, like Lace, explained -- this has existed since ARR relaunched with FATE grinders, PotD grinders, and yes - soon PvP grinders. I'd wager that potion users actually have MORE invested in the game than just normal sprouts as they put out more financially which, I hope, shows at least a lil motivation. If not, well - at least it made SE a lil moolah ^_^v Thanks again for the chat and debate

[Kaiden019]

False. Last night went into a 50-60 with my friend tanking. Both dps and healer were new. Got keeper of the lake and "explain" was posted every boss. Even after explaining they deliberately ignored the explanation and waymarks i placed. I get exactly why people are upset.

Non jump potion players do that too. It's literally no different.

[Ayrie]

People acting like Steps of Faith and Final Steps of Faith were not a real thing with real players who really leveled up their jobs and still could not handle this without 1) gear ilvl easing, 2) changes to the encounters, or 3) both.

Bad players have been around since the game's launch, and jump potions are not going to change anything. The percents of capable vs non-capable probably won't change by any significant margin. I, for one, would much rather carry a jump-potion user still getting used to the game than a season vet who still cannot dodge landslides in Titan (any mode).

Maybe you all should take the time spent fussing about dealing with them and refocus that into helping them NOT become part of the growing problem pool of players expecting to get carried because we can't be bothered to deal with them.

[NocturniaUzuki]

Not everyone wants to play through four years of content before reaching the "good stuff" in the next expansion.

This quote compels me to point something out:

Expansions actually remove more content than they introduce. Upon the release of a new expansion, only the expansion's small amount of end-game content is played, and everything else is ignored. This is largely the fault of the playerbase, of course. Human beings are hopelessly dazzled by new things, and for some reason seem to think that their new $100 brand-name dress is somehow better than a dress of the same material quality that they bought for $5 at a second-hand store. Point being, the idea that only the new content is the "good stuff" is flawed. Unlike most games, Final Fantasy XIV actually does a half-decent job of encouraging players to interact with older content. However, even so, nobody touches old content with the exception of the odd unsynced run of something for WT.

The unfortunate side effect of this is that, not only does 95% of the game become dead content, but the developers start to ignore quality assurance on older content, due to the fact that seemingly nobody actually cares about it. For example, have you tried tanking at a low level post-Stormblood? It's exceptionally boring. Some classes have also lost all of their interesting playstyles at lower levels. DRK is an example of this. Clearly, SQEX designed the new DRK around how well it functions at Lv70, but forgot that it has to function equally well at 50 and 60, at the very least.

Combined, these two problems can't be good for giving new players a strong impression. Queues for old content are now worse than ever, even with roulettes helping to fill slots. And trying to find a party to play anything that is outside of roulettes, synced, has always been next to impossible. For example, if I try to host a Synced party for SophiaEX now, I get plenty of people who join... and then immediately leave the moment that they realize it's not unsynced (because this problem has become so widespread that, even if you explicitly set your PF settings to not be undersized and write the word SYNCED fifteen times on the party description, people still think it's an unsynced WT party).

Many or even most of you probably don't even care. You probably only play at Lv70. But that's exactly my point. Why is that? Why do you only play a sliver of the game's content, then complain about how players have to grind through all this "worthless old content" to reach end-game. It's not worthless content. It's just as good as the new content. Only, you've forgotten that, since you only faceroll it at Lv70 to quickly grind pixel mounts. What happened to fun for fun's sake, not material value? Heck, one thing I love about this game is how it takes no effort to actually attain end-game gear. Most games force you to grind for months to get maxed gear. In FFXIV, you can do it in mere days. Likewise, gil has virtually no use outside of glamours. These two things should, theoretically, free people up to just do what they feel like and have fun. And yet everyone is still so hopelessly obsessed with sparkly new things that they grind the same two new Extreme trials over... and over... and over... and over again.

[ADVSS]

Non jump potion players do that too. It's literally no different.

maybe so, but these players had definitely used the potions. Therefore, the cause of frustration. My stance remains as it was against the potions as it has always been. I get the story skip one, but the job levelling as well is too much. imo it should be one or the other, not both.

[Kinkoz]

snip

But the dev team adds incentives to replay all the old content on a regular basis, what with the 50/60, Leveling, and Trial roulettes giving bonus verity, as well as the relic/Anima weapon questlines requiring you to revisit multiple cases of older content to progress through your weapon's upgrade path, which will probably be the case yet again if there is a new relic weapon questline introduced to the 4.x series. Give it some time. Just because people are focusing on the brand new content now doesn't mean they won't be given a reason later on to replay the older stuff.

[NocturniaUzuki]

But the dev team adds incentives to replay all the old content on a regular basis, what with the 50/60, Leveling, and Trial roulettes giving bonus verity, as well as the relic/Anima weapon questlines requiring you to revisit multiple cases of older content to progress through your weapon's upgrade path, which will probably be the case yet again if there is a new relic weapon questline introduced to the 4.x series. Give it some time. Just because people are focusing on the brand new content now doesn't mean they won't be given a reason later on to replay the older stuff.

I know that some of it is just due to Stormblood. But even so, these issues existed before Stormblood as well, when everyone was 'sick' of running the same old end-game Heavensward content. It was still virtually impossible to find parties for quite a lot of old content, although it was at least possible to find some of them, like ARR Extreme Primals would actually pop relatively often on Duty Finder, especially as a Tank/Healer. Other stuff though, say, Binding Coil of Bahamut, rarely popped synced. And finding a party for anything more eccentric, like minIL runs or no-echo, was far harder, though still easier than it is now.

[Inuk9]

baddies are not exclusive from jump potions, everyone knows that. But the chances of a bad player being a "jumper" is higher tham being a nom jumper.

Learning abilities at a one-at-a-time pace is a much better way to teach the player to get used with game mechanics (combos, positioning, healing...). If you get All abilities to lv 60 at your first contact with the game, there is something wrong with that.

Yeah, new jobs starts at 50, but you need to have actually some game knowledge to get there. It is not from the get go

[Kinkoz]

I know that some of it is just due to Stormblood. But even so, these issues existed before Stormblood as well, when everyone was 'sick' of running the same old end-game Heavensward content. It was still virtually impossible to find parties for quite a lot of old content, although it was at least possible to find some of them, like ARR Extreme Primals would actually pop relatively often on Duty Finder, especially as a Tank/Healer. Other stuff though, say, Binding Coil of Bahamut, rarely popped synced. And finding a party for anything more eccentric, like minIL runs or no-echo, was far harder, though still easier than it is now.

Well, there isn't exactly much reason to run older raid content for anything other than the fun of it or for completion's sake. I had a different experience from you, though, I guess, considering that I frequently saw parties going up in the PF for Coil. No one really wants to run that stuff synced especially since you still get the same rewards either way. As for niche runs, that's what makes them so niche and eccentric – they're things people generally wouldn't want to do unless they're feeling particularly experimental and adventurous. I'm sure the only reason such parties are so hard to form as things are right now is because, as I said, everybody wants to do the new Stormblood content, considering they have an entire MSQ campaign's worth of content to blow through before running out of things to do.

I understand that the fact that things are like this is the point of your grievance, but I'm simply saying that what you'd like to see is technically impractical, which is why it doesn't happen.