A PSA to all upset tank players

[RaizeGraymalkin]

Dark knight. I mean why rampart over shadowskin. And please stop with your attitutude. Ive seen players who can keep aggro and do good damage. While pure tanks often play super bad. Your attitude proves it.

You...realize I don't tank right? Continue to look foolish though. Enjoy your damage nerfs. ^_^

[akaneakki]

You...realize I don't tank right? Continue to look foolish though. Enjoy your damage nerfs. ^_^

So you took time to try prove a point or even a small little complaint about something you don't play? Then you ask for nerfs in msq trial in another thread? Enjoy the other primals for the story mode then lol.^_^

[IzumiOgata]

Been following this thread for a while now, so I'll dump my opinions here:

On enmity generation: More than a few times I've had to hold back my DPS while playing BRD cause the tank was too worried dishing out DPS to have a cushion for burst damage, also, healer damage is better than tank damage for the simple fact that healers use their primary stat for damage, we don't. In the end, tanking properly and dishing out some damage when possible will be the best balance to have bigger party DPS.

On "true" tanking: The challenge while tanking shouldn't be optimizing your DPS, but leading your party through battles, with positioning and coordenation, the battles on HW required little to no movement from the tank. As a tank you first think of your party, then you think of yourself, that way everyone can do their job to the best of their abilities without constraints.

On WARs: They were the only tank class that had no downside to stance dancing, the nerf was needed, deal with it

[Pori_Dessu]

Been following this thread for a while now, so I'll dump my opinions here:

On enmity generation: More than a few times I've had to hold back my DPS while playing BRD cause the tank was too worried dishing out DPS to have a cushion for burst damage, also, healer damage is better than tank damage for the simple fact that healers use their primary stat for damage, we don't. In the end, tanking properly and dishing out some damage when possible will be the best balance to have bigger party DPS.

On "true" tanking: The challenge while tanking shouldn't be optimizing your DPS, but leading your party through battles, with positioning and coordenation, the battles on HW required little to no movement from the tank. As a tank you first think of your party, then you think of yourself, that way everyone can do their job to the best of their abilities without constraints.

On WARs: They were the only tank class that had no downside to stance dancing, the nerf was needed, deal with it

On enmity generation: Enmity will get harder and harder to maintain as a tank going forward if they don't change something either about damage calculation or enmity calculation, seeing as DPS damage will grow way more than tank damage, and enmity is tied to damage (For all those "Tanks don't need to do damage"). Also, most of us don't find spamming literally one combo and one AoE very entertaining (As that's the amount of enmity combos/AoEs the tank classes currently have). Read a post I made earlier here if you want an example of what at least I would consider a fun tanking job with focus solely on enmity and mitigation.


On "true" tanking: Yeah...Because everyone that plays tank play to feel a leader (/s). Sorry to break this to you, but a very big part of the people that play tanks, play either because they like the Jobs or because they like the idea of being this unbreakable shield/wall/Damage Sponge that keeps the enemies from killing your allies, not because we wanna do shot-calling, babysitting, or dancing in mechanics. That mentality that all tanks gotta be "leaders" of sorts is what makes tanking a very unpopular role and some people afraid of trying it (My sister is incredibly afraid of tanking, since she believes you gotta lead the party...So...).

On WARs: First of all - I really don't agree with the whole balancing method of nerfing stuff that is good, and I believe that you should instead buff stuff that is bad to the same level the good stuff is. But, if you want to nerf something - Did WAR need the nerf? Yes! The thing is, the nerf was way more than needed. Just watch Xeno's video on the matter.

Side note: I see a majority of the people defending the current tanking state plays PLD... Why is that? (/s)

[IzumiOgata]

On enmity generation: [...]enmity is tied to damage [...]

You do know that when we are on tanking stance we generate nearly 4x as much aggro per dmg point compared to others, right?

On "true" tanking: [...]

And that's the reason we need only a fourth of the playing base to be tanks, at most, and even then, only half of it needs to act like leaders even when talking about savage/ex content. It's a daunting task for a reason, and a bunch of people get a thrill from leading the fray, tanking is for those types of people. I'm not saying that every tank should be a leader, but if you're tanking you're expected to act like one cause that's what the job calls for.

On WARs: [...]

I'll give you that aside from the nerf on stance dancing for WAR I have no opinion on the rest, I'll get back to you after watching the vid.

[Pori_Dessu]

You do know that when we are on tanking stance we generate nearly 4x as much aggro per dmg point compared to others, right?

I do, as I played DRK for HW content. The problem is: Even with that, as a DRK at least, when I ran Temple of the Fist on my friend character while he was on my RDM (He's very good at learning DPS rotations and nuances to optimize damage), I had to literally spam Unleashed on every pull even with Grit on all the time because the damage spikes were insane, so he'd keep jumping up a lot in the aggro table. And this will only get worse, as DPS damage will get too high at some point, while tank damage won't grow at a comparable rate.

And that's the reason we need only a fourth of the playing base to be tanks, at most, and even then, only half of it needs to act like leaders even when talking about savage/ex content. It's a daunting task for a reason, and a bunch of people get a thrill from leading the fray, tanking is for those types of people. I'm not saying that every tank should be a leader, but if you're tanking you're expected to act like one cause that's what the job calls for.

I would be inclined to agree with you if: A fourth of the player base indeed wanted to play like that (Which definitely isn't the case, as even with, as I said, a big part of the tank players not wanting that, DPS queues are insanely long), and if they didn't make one of the most popular jobs in FF history, which has always been a DPS-Like Job, into a Tank. And I don't know about your experience with other MMORPGs out there, but I played tanks in pretty much all of the ones I played (With the exception of XI), and never was I required to be a leader while tanking, just to charge first into the enemies... So other players that come from other games, that don't expect tanks to be leaders, will come to this game wanting to tank and not lead. (Btw, tanking and leading are two completely different things altogether, as most "leaders" in history or fiction don't even go to the frontlines...)

[IzumiOgata]

I do, as I played DRK for HW content. The problem is: Even with that, as a DRK at least, when I ran Temple of the Fist on my friend character while he was on my RDM [...], I had to literally spam Unleashed on every pull even with Grit on all the time because the damage spikes were insane, so he'd keep jumping up a lot in the aggro table. [...]

So you're telling me that the tank with the best AoE aggro skill is struggling with aggro cause you have to use it a few more times than you're used to? gimme a break, leveling PLD I had to use flash twice every combo to barely keep aggro until lvl40. Just cause you had it easy before doesn't mean it's bad now, you're just having to actually put effort into tanking, unlike HW, which was a cakewalk.

About the player base: Tell me a single MMO that ever had enough tanks for everyone and I'll give you that point. Tanks are never the most popular jobs, not even close, it's the way things go.

[RaizeGraymalkin]

So you took time to try prove a point or even a small little complaint about something you don't play? Then you ask for nerfs in msq trial in another thread? Enjoy the other primals for the story mode then lol.^_^

I HAVE tanked. I don't do it as a main. And I took time to point out you were being an ass, which you continue to be.

So again enjoy your tank nerfs <3 ^_^

[akaneakki]

I HAVE tanked. I don't do it as a main. And I took time to point out you were being an ass, which you continue to be.

Mostly WARS complaining because "waaahhh muh dps". How about you...ya know...tank now? Your actual job. Leave the e-peen at the door.

You talk about yourself now?

You...realize I don't tank right? Continue to look foolish though. Enjoy your damage nerfs. ^_^

Okay but you said you don't tank and now you talk like you know so much about the change. So again when you said fool, did you talk about yourself? Just asking for a nerf for MAINSTORY, is only what a fool would ask for. Again are you?

So again ^_^ I hope you beat the future msq trials.