A PSA to all upset tank players

[SargentToughie]

I chose Maruader as my class. Any suggestions for higher levels?

Meme answer: switch to Gladiator/Paladin

Real answer: Really, don't worry about any of the stuff that we're complaining about in this thread. This affects probably 1-5% of the tanking population, if we're being honest. As you level up you'll get more tools to play with, to include a DPS stance at 52 and a huge host of offensive abilities to go along with it. You can use them when you're feeling comfortable with the job and the fight, or when you're with a healer that you can trust.

Otherwise, really just make sure that you're using Rampart on cooldown, since Marauder/Warrior doesn't get much in the way of Defensive Cooldowns until Vengeance at level 46.

[Zosimo]

I don't see what the complaining is about, because as a DRK I haven't had any problems with tanking.

[347SPECTRE]

I don't see what the complaining is about, because as a DRK I haven't had any problems with tanking.

I second this.

[Pori_Dessu]

For all of those saying "You're a tank, you should tank!", "Stance Dancing wasn't meant to be a thing", "Stop crying about your DPS", and so on, the actual problem is: Just "tanking" (Yeah, quotes, since I don't believe this is the only aspect that makes a tank) in this game, that is, holding aggro and mitigating damage, is extremely simple and boring for a chunk of the tank player base, and a huge part of the general player base (Hence the amount of DPSes, no healer or Tanks). Yeah, you enjoy spamming one enmity combo/AoE and popping defensive CDs when needed, but others don't. Tanking in HW was fun, not because we could do good DPS, but because it allowed us to.The flexibility of being able to drop tank tank stance (Stance dancing, w/e) if you were playing correctly, and actually have to think about your rotation and your resource management, for those who enjoyed doing everything they could with a job and optimize their effectiveness on a party, it was entertaining.
If, let's say DRK, had not one, but, let's go with three enmity combos, and no pure damage combos, but each of the three combos had a different usage outside of enmity (One applied a DoT, one gave the DRK a buff, the other a debuff on the enemy), and each combo finisher gave us something similar to SAMs Sen (Let's call it "Runes" - Rune Fencer, plz SE!!!), and depending on what runes you had, a certain skill would, like NIN's ninjutsu, become a different skill with different effects (Blackest Night at 3, Bloodspiller with a different effect besides just damage at a certain combination of 2, A different version of Quietus at the other combination of 2, Carve and spit/Dark Arts - With a completely new effect on skills, not just damage increase/Delirium at 1), DRK would become an incredibly fun job to play without any focus on damage.
They design such entertaining and interesting DPS jobs, yet can't seem to do the same with tanks. An example of this is RDM: Extremely simple in design and to learn (Low skill floor) but after playing with it at 70 it is not an easy job to optimize (Somewhat high Skill Ceiling). Optimizing a RDM requires you to know the correct timing of using you acceleration, when it's worth using your Manafication and Embolden (Not just taking your own personal damage in consideration, but the party buff as well) besides manipulating your manas, and knowing how to take full use of your procs (Do I use my impact proc now or do I use Verfire/Verstone proc).
Most people that play videogames play it to feel engaged, and a big part of those don't feel engaged doing easy or repetitive stuff.

[GDFletcher]

Takes 4 years for PLD to get sorted, they get sorted and the other tanks sit and cry the eyes out! seriously get over yourselves! Paladin's had to take back 4 of their original skills from the job role so it isn't like we can purposely use other classes abilities.

We got a much needed reduction in the MP rate of Flash and a AOE skill! And what happens, SE also then kick the mass pull meta into the ground so that the newly founded AOE skill really doesn't have much to do in a dungeon, it doesn't add to the enmity as a bonus and it doesnt really hit for over 500 damage every swing with lower numbers on the off targeted creatures.

I have no idea why any tanks can sit and bitch on the forum about the class anymore when since ARR PLD have been 2nd class and then DRK came along and bitch slapped PLD down further, and now PLD can have a bit of spotlight the salted popcorn comes flying out from every corner.

Can't sodding win with the Tank community

[aleph_null]

For all of those saying "You're a tank, you should tank!", "Stance Dancing wasn't meant to be a thing", "Stop crying about your DPS", and so on, the actual problem is: Just "tanking" (Yeah, quotes, since I don't believe this is the only aspect that makes a tank) in this game, that is, holding aggro and mitigating damage, is extremely simple and boring for a chunk of the tank player base, and a huge part of the general player base (Hence the amount of DPSes, no healer or Tanks).

You can make tanking challenging even when the contents require you to stay in tank stance all the time. Even if you need to inner beast every single cleave to not get one shot, and stack inner beast + rampart, vengeance or other things to survive tank busters you'll still have rooms to optimize dps, e.g. coordinating tank swaps so tanks can use holmgang/LD/HG, counting gcds to know when you can use inner beast for dps or when you should hold it for an upcoming cleave/buster. The problem is, if tanking is that challenging for the best tanks in the game, people will come to the forums again and complain about how hard it is to tank in raids lmao. Imo it's fine to let people stance dance, it allows better players to do more dps and the average players can choose to stay in tank stance for the extra cushion in case they mess up. I have no idea why some people are so fixated on this "MT must be in tank stance" mentality.

Those people saying tanking in this game is so easy that you can stay in dps stance all the time probably never cleared midas savage when it was new, or even a12s with both tanks completely out of tank stance.

I chose Maruader as my class. Any suggestions for higher levels?

Marauder can become warrior, gladiator can become paladin. Dark knight can be unlocked when you reach heavensward main story quest, and it starts at lv 30. As it stands now, paladin seems to be the safest choice for end game contents. Its primary rotation is simple, it does more damage than the other two tanks, and on top of that it also has more group utilities. There's always a chance for the job to get nerfed, or other jobs to get buffed above paladin though, no one knows for sure.

But if you want to take your time and not rush to the end game, try to play all the three tank jobs for a bit and see which one you like more.

[Deathshiro]

I don't see what the complaining is about, because as a DRK I haven't had any problems with tanking.

It's not an immediate issue, it WILL be an issue probably sometime in 4.2/4.3 when dps str accessories start scaling up and people start figuring out their jobs. Currently im using 2 str pieces because the bosses dont hit hard enough and I'd rather not have the sam pulling aggro off me. For PLD and WAR its a pain in to switch in and out as it gets rid of a good portion of their gauge. If vit calculations stayed the same, currently at my ilvl (314 WITH vit accs on) I'd have about 1966 attack power as opposed to my 1711, this would of kept increasing and helping out dps wouldn't have been an issue.

However there will come a time when the power creep sets in and we will have trouble keeping aggro EVEN IN tank stance.... and if SE really wanted us to stay in tank stance I doubt we would have an option to leave it

[Pori_Dessu]

You can make tanking challenging even when the contents require you to stay in tank stance all the time. Even if you need to inner beast every single cleave to not get one shot, and stack inner beast + rampart, vengeance or other things to survive tank busters you'll still have rooms to optimize dps, e.g. coordinating tank swaps so tanks can use holmgang/LD/HG, counting gcds to know when you can use inner beast for dps or when you should hold it for an upcoming cleave/buster. The problem is, if tanking is that challenging for the best tanks in the game, people will come to the forums again and complain about how hard it is to tank in raids lmao. Imo it's fine to let people stance dance, it allows better players to do more dps and the average players can choose to stay in tank stance for the extra cushion in case they mess up. I have no idea why some people are so fixated on this "MT must be in tank stance" mentality.

Those people saying tanking in this game is so easy that you can stay in dps stance all the time probably never cleared midas savage when it was new, or even a12s with both tanks completely out of tank stance.

I understand that. And it's good to see someone who understands it as well. At least the problem I have with right now is:I don't enjoy sitting on Grit all the time (I play DRK), and in dungeons that's what I have to do, otherwise the RDM/SAM spikes all the way up in the aggro table in an instant (That's coming from the fact that I play RDM as well, and been working on SAM at the sides).In dungeons I got aggro from tanks not in tank stance so often I had to start using Diversion and Lucid Dreaming all the time (In normal mob pulls/bosses). I believe the problem lies in the lack of STR in tank accessories. Yeah, I know they don't want us doing damage and all, but it's also hurting our enmity generation quite a lot against well geared good DPS players. So with all that, at least in 4-man content (Which is what I have done on my friend's 70 DRK, as I haven't had the will to level mine yet) I had to stay on Grit most of the time, only being able to drop it on bosses IF the SAM/RDM wasn't a good DPS. And even when I dropped Grit, I had to use my really boring Enmity Combo so often it was disheartening.

[Odstarva]

The way I see it the less your HP oscillates, the least time healers need to babysit the tank and can focus on managing the party and/or DPSing. And I believe a healer can dish out a lot more damage than a tank, whom has to be ready to lose aggro and potentially goof up on their cooldowns etc.

As a dark knight, I find it really difficult to leave grit off when I'm tanking something like susano ex - if I use the blackest night on someone, trigger bloodspiller (with dark arts) I'll be left without mp. If the DPS is competent I may be about to lose aggro. Unless I'd rather do the 123 (enmity) combo rather than souleater, which won't generate any MP for me. Should I need grit on, good luck doing that when the MP is depleted, furthered by the fact that it costs one global cooldown.

Whereas if I'm with grit on, I can keep pushing dark arts with souleater until I have bloodspiller, and still have enough room to cast the blackest night whenever (which in more than one occasion has saved my life, or that of a healer with low health).
Why people forget utility for the sake of damage, especially when it comes to tanks and healers, is beyond me.

The truth of the matter is that if you can make your party feel safer, it will go that much smoother. Having a tank constantly on the verge of death won't make any healer smile, having a tank constantly on the verge of losing aggro won't make the DPS safe.

You're a tank, you're there to keep your party alive primarily, offer support secondarily.


Damage dealing is nice, but that's not what we as tanks signed up for.

[aleph_null]

The way I see it the less your HP oscillates, the least time healers need to babysit the tank and can focus on managing the party and/or DPSing. And I believe a healer can dish out a lot more damage than a tank, whom has to be ready to lose aggro and potentially goof up on their cooldowns etc.

When learning a new content? Sure. Once you're farming? You and your healers know precisely when the cleaves and tank busters happen, and if you coordinate with them they know precisely what mitigations you use for each of them. Taking 20k dmg when you have 40k is no different from taking 20k dmg when you have 60k hp, unless there's a chance for you to immediately die after taking that dmg (e.g. if you have 30k hp, you take 20k dmg and there's a possibility of auto attacks critting over 10k). Even if you drop grit you can learn about the timing, how many gcds you have until you need to turn it back on, how much mp you should generate/save during that time. That's how you optimize in a scripted game.