How are Tanks holding up from PLD WAR DRK

[Arrius]

I don't see Holy Spirit being used often in MT'ing, as you are seemingly not able to block, parry and/or dodge attacks during the cast.
Sure, 1.5 cast time seems to be rather quick, but burning the whole mana bar down in one go leaves you with 7.5 of the 12.5 seconds on reduced defense.

But being a OT with a WAR seems to be his ideal place - Burning Req+HS and applying Interventions to the WAR.

[SargentToughie]

I don't see Holy Spirit being used often in MT'ing, as you are seemingly not able to block, parry and/or dodge attacks during the cast.
Sure, 1.5 cast time seems to be rather quick, but burning the whole mana bar down in one go leaves you with 7.5 of the 12.5 seconds on reduced defense.

But being a OT with a WAR seems to be his ideal place - Burning Req+HS and applying Interventions to the WAR.

I'm fairly confident that Warrior MT and PLD OT is going to be the new meta. Warrior's Defiance kit is stronger than ever with the new meter, meaning you can have obscene mitigation time by weaving Inner Beasts in between Vengeance, Rampart, and Raw Intuition. This combined with Equilibrium being on a fairly short cooldown, and Upheaval getting bonus damage from defiance, means that WAR could potentially be -the- definitive Main Tank going forward. Along with that is PLD's incredible support and utility skills in Intervention and Cover 2.0, along with their sheer amount of damage output between their two buffs and holy spirit.

Loathe as I am to admit it given my previous complaints about how tanking plays right now, Defiance Warrior is likely the new strongest tank from a defensive standpoint, especially when backed up by a Paladin. I still probably won't play it, but facts are facts.

[Tila]

I'm fairly confident that Warrior MT and PLD OT is going to be the new meta. Warrior's Defiance kit is stronger than ever with the new meter, meaning you can have obscene mitigation time by weaving Inner Beasts in between Vengeance, Rampart, and Raw Intuition. This combined with Equilibrium being on a fairly short cooldown, and Upheaval getting bonus damage from defiance, means that WAR could potentially be -the- definitive Main Tank going forward. Along with that is PLD's incredible support and utility skills in Intervention and Cover 2.0, along with their sheer amount of damage output between their two buffs and holy spirit.

Loathe as I am to admit it given my previous complaints about how tanking plays right now, Defiance Warrior is likely the new strongest tank from a defensive standpoint, especially when backed up by a Paladin. I still probably won't play it, but facts are facts.

Moot point: PLD can block (so inner beasts boon of effecting magic while block doesn't is nullified, with block coming ahead). Equilibrium is shared. Rampart is shared. Paladin has more more group utility, many of which also effect the paladin themselves (like divine veil). PLD has Bulwark, it has Sentinel (which WAR has no equivalent to). Dont know why you included Upheaval at all since PLD has the same skill: Spirits Within.

Its not like having two paladins would prevent one of the paladins from using their kit. Being able to have two interventions is better than having one intervention and one.... nothing, WAR offers the group nothing aside from a damage buffs that others can give.

[SargentToughie]

Moot point: PLD can block (so inner beasts boon of effecting magic while block doesn't is nullified, with block coming ahead). Equilibrium is shared. Rampart is shared. Paladin has more more group utility, many of which also effect the paladin themselves (like divine veil). PLD has Bulwark, it has Sentinel (which WAR has no equivalent to). Dont know why you included Upheaval at all since PLD has the same skill: Spirits Within.

Its not like having two paladins would prevent one of the paladins from using their kit. Being able to have two interventions is better than having one intervention and one.... nothing, WAR offers the group nothing aside from a damage buffs that others can give.

I do think that if anything holds back the double PLD meta, it's going to be the LB gauge over WAR's defensive kit, you are entirely correct about that.

DRK/WAR are both in really dicy spots relative to PLD, I'm just going off the assumption (probably false) that we're still going to see two different jobs be taken. PLD/PLD is going to be bonkers strong, and WAR doesn't really provide anything of value outside of it's defensive suite, so I'm really more playing devil's advocate here.

Nevertheless, Warrior's got a thousand problems, I'm making a whole list of them for my own thread on here once I ding 70 on it, but it's defense suite definitely isn't one of them. This is the most durable we've ever been in the history of the game.

[Tila]

I do think that if anything holds back the double PLD meta, it's going to be the LB gauge over WAR's defensive kit, you are entirely correct about that.

DRK/WAR are both in really dicy spots relative to PLD, I'm just going off the assumption (probably false) that we're still going to see two different jobs be taken. PLD/PLD is going to be bonkers strong, and WAR doesn't really provide anything of value outside of it's defensive suite, so I'm really more playing devil's advocate here.

Nevertheless, Warrior's got a thousand problems, I'm making a whole list of them for my own thread on here once I ding 70 on it, but it's defense suite definitely isn't one of them. This is the most durable we've ever been in the history of the game.

Warriors lost a flat 10% damage reduction and a massive amount of self healing. They gained no real new defensive benefit aside from being able to inner beast more. I'm not seeing how they are oh so much more durable.

[Kuwagami]

Warriors lost a flat 10% damage reduction and a massive amount of self healing. They gained no real new defensive benefit aside from being able to inner beast more. I'm not seeing how they are oh so much more durable.

The 10% damage reduction is shared for all tanks since it's a design choice made to remove WAR from the "permanent spot because too stronk" place they were until now. This is irrelevant since it doesn't concern WARs alone, but all tanks in a raiding composition.

On the other hand, WAR traded foresight (which was always nice to have, but if we are to be honest, useless in most cases) for Rampart, which is way more useful AND provides a better defense buff.

[Reynhart]

They gained no real new defensive benefit aside from being able to inner beast more.

They also gained a flat damage increase on Defiance, a huge potency boost on Inner Beast, and the ability to use far more beast skills in Deliverance.

[Tila]

They also gained a flat damage increase on Defiance, a huge potency boost on Inner Beast, and the ability to use far more beast skills in Deliverance.

Which would all be buffs if WAR was meant to be a higher damage tank still, instead all tanks have around the same damage and their overall damage has been lowered due to the removal of strength of ACC leading to far less healing. That 10% was also their primary group utility which they lost and other tanks either still have their group utility (and gained more) or lost their utility but gained one.