How are Tanks holding up from PLD WAR DRK

[Atreides]

All dps and healers now have enmity tools to help them not pull aggro. Usually if I toss out a few enmity combos I can comfortably go into sword oath for a good while before they start to creep up on me, and if they are paying attention and use their enmity dump it takes even longer.

Yeah. No.
I don't see any DPS ever using it, heck they don't even take goad as cross class and usually don't have any idea what they are fucking doing. :|
On paper it should be like that but thats mostly only for premade that people take acutally supporting cross class skills.

[Sipherous]

People need to realize that we lost VIT as a stat for dmg. and we are leveling. You need to work harder to hold enimity due to this as we dont have a 15 ilevel jump from all the mobs.

Penalties for stance swapping are not that bad. You just need to plan around dumping your gauges when u stance swap, PLD can intervention or sheltron just before he swaps, WAR can use IB, upheaveal and such to dump their gauge as they switch. Remember WARS were the only class not to lose anything upon stance dancing in 3.0. It was grossly unfair to DRK and PLD whoi lost a GCD and MP to switch but now the field is leveled.

The DPS tank Meta is pretty much dead at this point and that's not a bad thing. This will require the DPS to actually do their jobs more and not rely on the extra output from Tanks and Healers to meet checks.

Remember WE ARE LEVELING. We do not out Gear content, nothing can be face rolled and we are relearning class systems. Things are going to feel clunky or not right because of the changes. Play get use to it and comment on it later. This isnt 3.0 we are evolving.

[SargentToughie]

Penalties for stance swapping are not that bad. You just need to plan around dumping your gauges when u stance swap, PLD can intervention or sheltron just before he swaps, WAR can use IB, upheaveal and such to dump their gauge as they switch. Remember WARS were the only class not to lose anything upon stance dancing in 3.0. It was grossly unfair to DRK and PLD whoi lost a GCD and MP to switch but now the field is leveled.

I've got a pretty big problem with this particular part of your post.

Tanks are in dire demand, that much is obvious. For as long as FF14 has existed, tanks have been the hardest role to fill and always been the most in need. So why, if that is the case, would you deliberately go out of your way to make tank jobs LESS fun to play, by inflicting penalties on WAR's tank stance dance? Wouldn't it make more sense to instead go the other direction, and alleviate all penalties for stance swapping from all 3 tanks?

You say that the DPS tank meta is dead, but that'll never the be the case. As soon as tanks have enough survivability or a good handle on their cooldowns, they'll always try to optimize damage afterwards. It's simply more clunky now than it was in the past, with harsher penalties and a higher barrier to entry.

A lot of tanks really enjoy the play style of optimizing damage. Why would you make decisions that are more likely to push them away?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The DPS tank Meta is pretty much dead at this point and that's not a bad thing. This will require the DPS to actually do their jobs more and not rely on the extra output from Tanks and Healers to meet checks.

First and foremost, no one expected tanks and healer to meet DPS checks. It was always about equal contribution. The idea DPS just need to "git gud" and that the others roles shouldn't have to deal damage is utter nonsense. The whole point of extra damage is essentially that; damage outside the requirement, thus making content go faster. The only difference is only one role prioritizes it above all else.

Aside from that, no the DPS meta is not dead. All the adjustment cause is players being even less willing to switch back. I guarantee you, Warriors won't be thinking "oh, I better be careful with stance dancing." They'll think, "Heal me because once I turn on Deliverance, I'm never going back." The only thing that will never hinder the DPS meta is content that necessitates more defensive play. I've already seen plenty of tanks pull 6+ mobs and handle it fine. Sure, it's more a struggle currently since everything is new. But that isn't going to last nor suddenly deter players who always played aggressive to stop. On the healer side of things, White Mage is a DPS monster in dungeons. In fact, Cleric Stance was largely abandoned because it made healer DPS feel clunky and frustrating at times. Why punish tanks for the same thing you removed from healers?

Putting all that side, others have already summed up another issue going in the direction the devs have. If less people perceive tanks fun, they simply won't play them. Currently, I find Dark Knight awful because everything I loved about the job was gutting in favour of a simplistic, bare bones approach. I'll see if my opinion changes the more I level it, however this just pushes me closer to sticking with Samurai or picking up the new OP Paladin I hear so many people gushing over. I doubt that is what the devs wanted nor am I alone feeling this way.

[FallenWings]

^ Sums up my feelings as a former career tank.

Ultimately what I would've preferred is if the mitigation and/or aggro control aspect were developed to be more rewarding than bare necessities required for a completion of a fight.

Essentially, if mitigating well or pushing more aggro would reward skillful play with actually impactful effects were designed into the game, I'd wager that "tanks would tank more". So as an example, if I mitigated a tankbuster with more than 50% HP, I would receive a 20% damage boost or something to that effect.

Make tanking rewarding and perhaps, it may please both the "turtle/defenserealtank camp" and the "mindlessdps/tryhard camp".

Aesthetics are there, but without the numbers to back it up and the horrendous gameplay changes (basically braindead) I frankly, lost my fire to tank. You know something is wrong when you don't even enjoy the leveling up and gaining of new skills of your once main class.

[Marxam]

With regards to tank dancing yeah its cumbersome but manageable. What really annoys me about WAR is how Infuriate can't be used outside battle. I finally get why they did it after getting the Infuriate trait but I feel that it could be handled better. It would be op as they would be the only Job to have a full gauge on pull if Infuriate was used outside of battle so I get it. What I don't get is how Storm's Path finisher gives 20 gauge but Butcher Block and Storm Eye gives 10 respectively. This is considered a soft nerf to war as we are now forced to use our lowest dmg combo to gain more gauge. If they could change one thing about WAR its that all combo finishers give 20 gauge.

[Gildarts]

so anyone have DRK / WAR susano dummy DPS?

[Ciderfox]

so anyone have DRK / WAR susano dummy DPS?

WAR and PLD are very close with WAR just slightly higher by double digits dps. DRK falls behind by about 100 dps but overall all 3 tanks are pretty close.

[Gildarts]

WAR and PLD are very close with WAR just slightly higher by double digits dps. DRK falls behind by about 100 dps but overall all 3 tanks are pretty close.

i already saw the dummy parser, well in general DRK lose more on dummy since you can't use The Blackest Night.

[Xenosan]

i already saw the dummy parser, well in general DRK lose more on dummy since you can't use The Blackest Night.

Wondering about that too, potentially another BS every ~15 seconds, curious how much those extra would contrast,