DPS classes numbers and ranking posted on reddit

[KaiSunstrider]

I can imagine that BRD/MCH might come in handy in case of a heavy movement tier. Caster still got their backdrop in massiv aoe situations - no matter how hard they can strike - they need there spots & time to shine.

Also every single class brings their own personal debuffs for the most part other than BRD/MCH. In a dragoon group, they get around a 6% flat damage buff which puts BRD in the lower 4ks without considering any other cds at all.

[Ephier]

Also every single class brings their own personal debuffs for the most part other than BRD/MCH. In a dragoon group, they get around a 6% flat damage buff which puts BRD in the lower 4ks without considering any other cds at all.

In turn, stuff like trick, foes, hypercharge also buff other classes pushing their damage up as well. Sooo...

[KaiSunstrider]

In turn, stuff like trick, foes, hypercharge also buff other classes pushing their damage up as well. Sooo...

Exactly. Thats what I meant by saying even if we dont look at raid buffs, we arent as low as it looks. When you look at utility, we are even higher. I think MCH needs a buff though. You guys dont have nearly the utility that bard does to make up for being behind in damage.

[HoLoFoNo]

Also every single class brings their own personal debuffs for the most part other than BRD/MCH. In a dragoon group, they get around a 6% flat damage buff which puts BRD in the lower 4ks without considering any other cds at all.

I'm not sure if you have realised, but disembowel has been nerfed to 5% piercing. How in the name of Jeebus would BRD get 6% damage lol

[KaiSunstrider]

I'm not sure if you have realised, but disembowel has been nerfed to 5% piercing. How in the name of Jeebus would BRD get 6% damage lol

Because of the way boss resistance work. When disembowel was 10% piercing resistance debuff, that equated to an 8-11% damage gain for BRD and MCH. Of course this number varies depending on reference because the only way that people were able to find out actual damage gains was to hit targets with and without debuff and compare the relative gains over many iterations.. This is the very reason many statics ran DRG, NIN, MCH, BRD because of the extreme synergy even though Monks had much higher personal dps. Now that disembowel is only 5% piercing resistance it is likely still a 4-6% damage buff.

[HoLoFoNo]

Because of the way boss resistance work. When disembowel was 10% piercing resistance debuff, that equated to an 11% damage gain for BRD and MCH. This is the very reason many statics ran DRG, NIN, MCH, BRD because of the extreme synergy. Now that disembowel is only 5% piercing resistance it is only 5.5-6% damage buff.

1) I'm pretty sure that this isn't the case as people originally thought. It actually buffs your damage rather than lowering the bosses resistance despite what it says it does.
2) Even if it did, BRD gets a large chunk of its dps from DoTs, and those aren't affected by the piercing debuff since its not piercing damage, just physical damage.

[KaiSunstrider]

1) I'm pretty sure that this isn't the case as people originally thought. It actually buffs your damage rather than lowering the bosses resistance despite what it says it does.
2) Even if it did, BRD gets a large chunk of its dps from DoTs, and those aren't affected by the piercing debuff since its not piercing damage, just physical damage.

Sure. The point still remains that Brd and Mch are the only classes that dont bring their own resistance/damage debuffs. Meaning that without considering any party wide buffs cds, both will do more damage just by being on a target with a DRG doing his thing than by themselves. Nin used to be this way with a warrior but now that the SF combo applies slashing, its no longer a "buff" for nins to be in a group with a warrior vs without.

But it's no diff than the argument of DRG will do better just by there being another party member because of DE, and monks will do better in raid group/parties just because of how their CDs have a synergy with chakra generation. All of this without considering anything else anyone brings to the table. You throw either of those two in party with 3 SAMs who bring zero raid cds and zero debuffs for either MNK or DRG and both classes will do more dps than solo.

[HoLoFoNo]

Sure. The point still remains that Brd and Mch are the only classes that dont bring their own resistance/damage debuffs. Meaning that without considering any party wide buffs cds, both will do more damage just by being on a target with a DRG doing his thing than by themselves. Nin used to be this way with a warrior but now that the SF combo applies slashing, its no longer a "buff" for nins to be in a group with a warrior vs without.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but regardless the point is the difference between DRG and MNK/NIN let alone SAM is not going to be made up with piercing alone. Nor is dragon sight or Litany gonna make up the difference. Dragoon who has 3 offensive support abilitiees still provides less than the other 2 dps with 1 offensive support ability and still less than the dps that provides raw dps due to how low the personal damage of brd and mch are right now (and i'm talking about how disembowel affects them, so their utility doesn't apply here just their damage).

Maybe if you had both MCH and BRD in a single party with a DRG it might add up all things considered but who would run something like that when they could run MNK/NIN/CASTER (who are all strong atm) and BRD? BRD gains so little from a 5% disembowel that it isn't even a significant consideration like it used to be and MCH is in a tough spot right now period.

Looks like they were so fed up with the old meta they made it dog doodoo.

[KaiSunstrider]

BRD gains so little from a 5% disembowel that it isn't even a significant consideration like it used

It's not just disembowel. The majority of our damage comes from our song procs which is heavily crit based RNG. Chain strategem plus litany snap shotted for 45 seconds is an incredible boost for bards (pitch perfect and blood letter spam) on top of the natural damage gains that classes get from having higher crit. Dragoon bard synergy is probably just as strong if not stronger than in 3.0 even with the nerf to disembowel. At least from the bards standpoint. The personal dps contribution of DRG overall is still a relevant point of argument though. The best thing for the discussion would be for me to sit on a dummy with our SAM for a while and then with our DRG to see exactly what gains I receive over an allotted amount of time.