About Esuna, Exalted Detriment and Leeches change

[Taika]

Ummmm and if the ONE HEALER that has Esuna dies? But the other healer is still alive, but has no Esuna, what if in the time it takes that healer to revive the other healer, multiple people die from a DoT or other crippling Debuff? Hmm? Well? Unless they plan to remove the Animation/Time Delay of the Revival process, which adds an extra 5 or so seconds after you accept the revive, people....can....die.

You can't really plan your raid strategies for failure, you make the most optimal plan and stick with it. It's like saying "we need to have a SMN in the group, otherwise what if both healers die..." In raids, if one healer dies, it's generally game over in the first place (in progression phase before overgearing, I mean).

I used Coil 10 and A3S as my examples (those are so far the only raid fights I remember which required Esuna). If the Esuna healer would have died in either, there really wouldn't have been a point in the other having the spell available (well at least in A3S, not sure how well I remember Coil 10 ).

[Ootarion]

You can't really plan your raid strategies for failure, you make the most optimal plan and stick with it. It's like saying "we need to have a SMN in the group, otherwise what if both healers die..." In raids, if one healer dies, it's generally game over in the first place (in progression phase before overgearing, I mean).

I used Coil 10 and A3S as my examples (those are so far the only raid fights I remember which required Esuna). If the Esuna healer would have died in either, there really wouldn't have been a point in the other having the spell available (well at least in A3S, not sure how well I remember Coil 10 ).

You cannot, and should not, expect one healer to be the only one using their MP to remove debuffs, there is a reason to have multiple healers, and not just for HEALING, but for sharing the burden of EVERYTHING, you're putting to much on one healer by asking them to be the only one both healing AND removing debuffs. Im not saying this because I couldnt do that, cause I could, Im saying this cause that would be unfair. That would be like asking ONE healer to be dedicated revival, which Raise, Ascend and Resurrection all cost ALOT OF MP! Furthermore you cannot and SHOULD NOT expect everyone you roll with to always be on their A game and avoid all the stuff that can be avoided, people will make mistakes, and it is for this reason that it is CRUCIAL to have redundancy, IE having two healers with Debuff Removers, and both healers reviving as needed, it's again, called sharing the burden, dont be selfish.

[Taika]

You cannot, and should not, expect one healer to be the only one using their MP to remove debuffs, there is a reason to have multiple healers, and not just for HEALING, but for sharing the burden of EVERYTHING, you're putting to much on one healer by asking them to be the only one both healing AND removing debuffs. Im not saying this because I couldnt do that, cause I could, Im saying this cause that would be unfair.

Erm I was talking about my own experience, how my raid groups have handled fights like this (being the healer responsible erasing those debuffs). Have you done them otherwise? To me it doesn't make any sense for both healers to be doing the same thing at the same time, when one of them could be doing the debuff erasing while the other could actually be healing the party (or doing something else useful).

That would be like asking ONE healer to be dedicated revival, which Raise, Ascend and Resurrection all cost ALOT OF MP!

In WHM+SCH raiding, usually it was always the SCH's responsibility to handle all the raises... Have you actually done any raiding in this game?

Yes I have, and you know what, Ive raided with various mixes of healers, and you know what? We all shared in the burden of reviving people AND removing debuffs, cause that is how you work together, you share the burden, if you are not a healer, you wouldnt get it.

I've been healer main since 1.0 and raided through ARR as WHM and HW as SCH... What we've done we've always agreed who's responsible for what and when, together.

Edit: Checked your character and you don't even seem to have any healer raid gear so yeah, please tell me more about how I'm the one who doesn't know anything about raid healing and how I am "lazy, irresponsible and unfair".

[Ootarion]

Erm I was talking about my own experience, how my raid groups have handled fights like this (being the healer responsible erasing those debuffs). Have you done them otherwise? To me it doesn't make any sense for both healers to be doing the same thing at the same time, when one of them could be doing the debuff erasing while the other could actually be healing the party (or doing something else useful).


In WHM+SCH raiding, usually it was always the SCH's responsibility to handle all the raises... Have you actually done any raiding in this game?

Yes I have, and you know what, Ive raided with various mixes of healers, and you know what? We all shared in the burden of reviving people AND removing debuffs, cause that is how you work together, you share the burden, that is what you do as a healer in a group of more then one healer, you share the burden, you do not seem like a healer or someone who mains a healer cause you dont seem to get it :/

Also, "One healer debuffing erasing while the other heals" Umm....wat? Why have more then one healer if you are gonna do that -.-

Addendum: Look it is clear that we dont agree with one another, if your party is fine with one Healer being an actual healer and the other one being a Phoenix Down, be my guest, I however do not agree to that mindset, I think its lazy, irresponsible and unfair.

[Fawkes]

You can't really plan your raid strategies for failure, you make the most optimal plan and stick with it. It's like saying "we need to have a SMN in the group, otherwise what if both healers die..." In raids, if one healer dies, it's generally game over in the first place (in progression phase before overgearing, I mean).

I used Coil 10 and A3S as my examples (those are so far the only raid fights I remember which required Esuna). If the Esuna healer would have died in either, there really wouldn't have been a point in the other having the spell available (well at least in A3S, not sure how well I remember Coil 10 ).

This whole system seems like it only makes sense for 8 person statics, while being a detriment to all other players. And it isn't even giving a benefit to those static players, it just doesn't hinder them.

[Aramina]

This whole system seems like it only makes sense for 8 person statics, while being a detriment to all other players. And it isn't even giving a benefit to those static players, it just doesn't hinder them.

Yes and no. I can see why you (general you) would consider it a detriment, but I don't see it that way because for non-difficult content you can take your basics+whatever and that's fine. Taking the "perfect skill combination" is really only relevant in higher tier content. That's not to say that I think you are wrong in how you feel... just I can kinda see where they were going with it.

[Ootarion]

This whole system seems like it only makes sense for 8 person statics, while being a detriment to all other players. And it isn't even giving a benefit to those static players, it just doesn't hinder them.

Even if it were a benefit to 8 person static groups, I still would NEVER expect one healer to do any more or any less work then the other healer. 60% or so of what healers do is Healing and debuff removal with the occasional revive if someone or multiple people have died, and what Taika is suggesting is that one healer should do most of the work while the other healer just heals, IF THAT.

[Aramina]

Even if it were a benefit to 8 person static groups, I still would NEVER expect one healer to do any more or any less work then the other healer. 60% or so of what healers do is Healing and debuff removal with the occasional revive if someone or multiple people have died, and what Taika is suggesting is that one healer should do most of the work while the other healer just heals, IF THAT.

Doing different work isn't the same as doing less work.

[Taika]

and what Taika is suggesting is that one healer should do most of the work while the other healer just heals, IF THAT.

I didn't say anything of the sort... I was using an example of existing fights - neither of which you have apparently done? For example, in A3S last phase 2 people will get debuff that has to be erased within certain time or they'll die. At the same time, the tank is getting hit hard. So instead of both healers not healing the tank who is getting beaten to death, we (and to my knowledge, all the other groups doing that fight) chose to have 1 healer erase the debuffs while the other made sure the tank was kept alive. Both healers were working 100% and had their own, important responsibilities. And then there's you, without apparently any experience whatsoever from these kind of fights in this game, telling us, the healers who've actually done this content, how our playing is lazy, irresponsible and unfair. xD

Because I play and party regularly with one of the best healers Ive ever known, and when we both heal, we share in the burden and both give it our all as any reasonable player would, we dont make one do more work then the other, not in the slightest, if you and your peeps are fine with doing that, that is your choice, but neither myself, nor he, would ever do that, as we would find it lazy, irresponsible and unfair, and we've never told eachother to do less work then the other healer, and I agree with him, if there is more then one healer, you share in the burden.

What you don't understand is, in my case too, both healers are working equally hard. They just have different responsibilities and duties during each part of a fight. If 1 person gets a debuff, it makes no sense whatsoever to have two healers casting Esuna on that person at the same time. That's one whole gcd 100% wasted when it could have been used on something that's actually useful for the whole group.

Also I dont know where you are seeing my profile

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...cter/10277019/

Because you gave the impression, whether it was your intention or not, that only one healer should ever heal while the other heals and removes debuffs, thats the impression you gave, if that wasnt the case then I apologize.

What I actually said was that often in fights when there are debuffs to remove, groups give that duty to one healer - because that makes sense. I did not imply in any way that one of the healers will or should have to work harder than the other, that's your imagination (and lack of experience from these types of fights).

[Ootarion]

Checked your character and you don't even seem to have any healer raid gear so yeah, please tell me more about how I'm the one who doesn't know anything about raid healing and how I am "lazy, irresponsible and unfair".

Because I play and party regularly with one of the best healers Ive ever known, and when we both heal, we share in the burden and both give it our all as any reasonable player would, we dont make one do more work then the other, not in the slightest, if you and your peeps are fine with doing that, that is your choice, but neither myself, nor he, would ever do that, as we would find it lazy, irresponsible and unfair, and we've never told eachother to do less work then the other healer, and I agree with him, if there is more then one healer, you share in the burden.

Also I dont know where you are seeing my profile, but if you are using this Forum's Profile system then hahaha you are wrong, I am lvl 60 as White Mage and Astrologian, I get people praising me for my skill as a healer both In Raids and outside Raids. This forum seems to be showing me as a lvl 55 Conjurer or lvl 47 White Mage or whatever, but lul that system is wrong :P