WHM might be meta

[Mahkii]

While i agree that whispering dawn is amzing because its an ogcd medica 2 with no mp cost, asylum can have the same effect for saving healing gcds in some fights. in fact, assize now heals and does damage. Im not saying white mage will always outshine scholar, im saying that it CAN outshine scholar in SOME fights

What's OP about Whispering Dawn is that it comes from the shield healer. That means you can stack it with the regen healer's AOE regen (Aspected Helios, Medica 2) and then both healers can just spam DPS for a while without healing. If you do this right in certain fights of Creator Savage, you can skip entire phases that you may have not known you could skip.

[QooEr]

That means you can stack it with the regen healer's AOE regen and then both healers can just spam DPS for a while without healing. If you do this right in certain fights of Creator Savage, you can skip entire phases that you may have not known you could skip.

oh i know. but for example, in a10s speedkills scholars usually use whispering dawn like 20 seconds into the fight and that way both healers can have 100% cleric stance uptime during the first phase. however, asylum has the same effect. in fact, i have a run of a10s where both me and a white mage have 97 percentile parses without any food or pots.

if 4.0 whm existed right now, a9s speedruns would bring a whm since itd have way better aoe damage, as well as assize which both heals and deals damage, and also asylum which would alleviate heals from the ast.


as i see it, dps optimization for healers is really dependent on the fight, which means that while scholar's tools could be amazing in one fight, white mage might be able to do about the same in some fights while bringing more dps.

you can stack medii and asp helios too btw

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

If you're using Eos, you're losing dps by not having Fey Wind, which is already a dps loss on it's own. Party wide shields might be nice, but they aren't a deal-breaker, and WHM can still single target shield at the same gcd cost as a SCH, so that's also moot.

[Kabzy]

one ability why SCH is currently meta, it is an ability called Whispering Dawn.

Nope. Selene says hi.

[Mahkii]

If you're using Eos, you're losing dps by not having Fey Wind, which is already a dps loss on it's own. Party wide shields might be nice, but they aren't a deal-breaker, and WHM can still single target shield at the same gcd cost as a SCH, so that's also moot.

Its your personal loss, but not the group's. For the group, this is a gain.

oh i know. but for example, in a10s speedkills scholars usually use whispering dawn like 20 seconds into the fight and that way both healers can have 100% cleric stance uptime during the first phase. however, asylum has the same effect. in fact, i have a run of a10s where both me and a white mage have 97 percentile parses without any food or pots.

if 4.0 whm existed right now, a9s speedruns would bring a whm since itd have way better aoe damage, as well as assize which both heals and deals damage, and also asylum which would alleviate heals from the ast.


as i see it, dps optimization for healers is really dependent on the fight, which means that while scholar's tools could be amazing in one fight, white mage might be able to do about the same in some fights while bringing more dps.

you can stack medii and asp helios too btw

You would be stacking medii 2 and asp helios at the cost of shields, but I respect that you know what you're talking about.

[Gemina]

Do you remember learning about opportunity cost in your basic economics class?

Lilies are harmful because of the opportunity cost.

WHM had a chance to increase in power in various ways, similar to the new capabilities SCH and AST gained. What WHM got was... lilies.

I know the lily mechanic leaves an air of skepticism due to the tool tips that were released, but just because WHM didn't get something all cool and flashy like Earthly Star doesn't mean the lily mechanic will be dead on arrival. We don't know, and won't know the extent of their power in fresh content until we get our hands on SB, so please just stop with this already.

OP, thanks for putting in that time and effort, and looking for windows for WHM to be brought back into the meta. That is a hell of a lot more than the constant griping, and doomsaying over the last couple weeks.

[winsock]

The fairest exchange (both jobs each with their respective bis gear) has whm doing 17.59% more than scholar. As we are going early into the expansion, the numbers should be closer to how they are with no gear, so white mage will probably outdps scholar by a fair amount in the early tier(s) of savage. Once we get actual numbers, this is going to be way more accurate. But for the sake of argument, let’s say whm does about 30% more dps than scholar

^ you're making a HUGE assumption here.
We dont know exactly what the potencies are. SE has stated WHM is 'pure healer'. The current DPS requirements for SSS only require the WHM to push roughly 5% more than SCH. You're estimating the "fairest exchange" being a WHM lead around 17.59%, then bumping WHM up to a whopping 30% lead. I would wager you are overestimating the WHM lead by a substantial amount.

Let's also not forget if SCH and WHM are both in full DPS rotation, SCH can offer a great deal of support without interruption. It is a pretty significant chunk of DPS lost just for the WHM to maintain Regen on the MT. SCH also takes less of a penalty to dps if it needs to move for a mechanic, etc

While it would be great if WHM could make it into the meta, I am certainly not holding my breath.

[QooEr]

^ you're making a HUGE assumption here.
We dont know exactly what the potencies are. SE has stated WHM is 'pure healer'. The current DPS requirements for SSS only require the WHM to push roughly 5% more than SCH. You're estimating the "fairest exchange" being a WHM lead around 17.59%, then bumping WHM up to a whopping 30% lead. I would wager overestimating by a substantial amount.

i know im making huge assumptions but we dont have much data to work with. but even if we did the calculations at 17.59% (which is the fairest exchange for CURRENT gear, at the END of the patch with the highest substats, while with lower substats whm has a way greater lead) we get
1.1759 * (0.0737 ) > (0.0737 ) + (0.0031075)
0.08666383 > 0.0768075

which is still true


and while we dont know if potencies are changed, we were actually shown in detail every skill they had. i wouldnt have been able to make the rotations into a function otherwise

[Rawrz]

SCH also takes less of a penalty to dps if it needs to move for a mechanic, etc

Just an aside, with the removal of bio and aero, dots will factor much less into their dps, meaning that the less SCHs are able to broil II the less their dps will be. Very similar to the contribution of Stone III with Aero III and Aero II in Heavensward.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Looking at AST and their spammable 300% barrier, it's pretty obvious they're pushing a WHM/AST composition since their attempt to do so in 3.4, fell flat.

Though if this really is a case, it's only a temporary fix. AST can't stay this powerful, it's going to destroy healer balance going forward.
It's also artificially making WHM useful. Sure, supercharge AST shields to the point where you won't want to take another mitigation healer, but that's just covering up all of the issues with WHM.

I could be totally off mark, but this is what it feels like, and I can only hope SE isn't that silly enough to think they can get away with this for long.

I DREAD the day a new healer is announced.