WHM might be meta

[KDSilver]

What I'm curious of is to see how the damages will be in SB.
I tend to think it'll be very defensive because almost every class got defensive spells and cooldown.

To be a Meta healer, we have to see how that healer's spells works for the content and which is more valuable compare to others and then how much dps he will provide to the group.

Looks like healing might be fun

[Maltothoris]

If you're using Eos, you're losing dps by not having Fey Wind, which is already a dps loss on it's own.

Here's the thing. Speedkills use eos. Cause ultimately, fey wind is about a 1-3 percent raid increase in dps. This doesn't outweigh the dps that both healers could be doing.

Here's a personal example. With groups that use Selene on A10S, we've seen that adds. On groups that I've done with Eos, we kill the boss even before the adds showed up and this was before eos. Whispering Dawn is techically a spell despite being on a 60 second CD. SO it benefits from rouse and fey illumination which makes whipsering dawn 50-60 percent stronger. It makes it better than the WHM asylum. That is why while speedkills open with selene, they switch to eos right as the fight begins.

[CaeliaCat]

Won't the meta just be Noct AST / Diurnal AST, assuming the potencies of the media tour build stay the same? Higher healing throughput than a WHM, shields as strong or stronger than SCH, 2x the earthly stars, and Balance for days?

I don't see how any of this seriously leads to WHM becoming a favored healer. Hopefully we see changes in the patch notes.

[MsTanya]

Won't the meta just be Noct AST / Diurnal AST, assuming the potencies of the media tour build stay the same? Higher healing throughput than a WHM, shields as strong or stronger than SCH, 2x the earthly stars, and Balance for days?

I don't see how any of this seriously leads to WHM becoming a favored healer. Hopefully we see changes in the patch notes.

Assuming people don't care about a slower limit break bar, this.

[Sighearth]

Hm interesting but I dont think WHM will do 1.3x SCH dps. They will do more ofc, but not that much of difference, lets look in WHM and SCH potencies for 1 min dpsing (24 gcds) (assuming both have the same magic damage)

24 GCDs ( 1min)
------------------------------------------
aero3 x 2.5 -> 2.5 * 370 = 925
Assize x 1 = 300
StoneIV x 21.5 = 5590
WHM total => 5590 + 925 + 300 = 6815 potency/min
---------------------------------------------
SCH: 24 GCDs
Bio2 x 2 -> 350 * 2 = 700
Miasma x 2.5 -> 300 * 2,5 = 750
Energy Drain x 3 -> 150 * 3 = 450
1 x Shadow flare = 250
Broil2 x 19.5 -> 230 * 19.5 = 4485
SCH total => 6635 potency/min

That means the WHM can do 180 potency/min more than SCH. Now if we count chain strategem we get 20% more crit for 15 seconds with 90 secs cd, lets assume that this buff have 100% up time ( which means the duration goes 6x higher and the crit chance 6 x lower to maintain the proportion) that mean we will have 3.3% more crit for 90 seconds with 90 seconds cd (100% uptime). What is better to bring? 180 extra potency/min or 3.3% more crit for the entire fight?

Lets assume the fight have a duration of 10 min, so WHM would bring 10 x 180 = extra 1800 potency. for 10 min we would have 24 * 10 = 240 gcds, with 3.3% crit it is expected that we get around 3 critted gcds for every 100 gcds, which for 240 gcds means approximately 7 gcds should crit for every person in the party. So is 8 x 7 = 56 gcds should crit ( for the entire 10 min duration encounter) because of the SCH buff, for every crit will have 50% more potency for that gcd, which means 56 gcds will have 50% more potency.

Now this part gets tricky, because higher the potency, higher the 50% increase will be so it will depends of those gcds that the entire party will use. For that increase to surpass the 1800 extra potency from the WHM, the sum of all increased potencies of those 56 gcds must be higher than 1800 as follows: 56 x 0.5 (potency) > 1800
0.5 x potency > 1800 / 56
potency > 32.14 / 0.5
potency > 64.2

We can see that by doing : 64.2 potency with crit is 96.3 ( 64.2 * 1.5) that means we get extra 32.1 potency per gcd, now making it for those 56 gcds we have 56 * 32.1 = 1797.6 which is less than 1800 as the proof.
Ok if we get the next whole number potency = 65 potency we get (65 * 1.5 = 97.5) so (97.5 - 65 = 32.5) now, (32.5 * 56 = 1820 potency) ( which is higher than 1800).

My conclusion: If every party member can use a gcd with 65 potency or higher than SCH will contribute more to dps than the extra potencies that WHM have. As 65 potency is a pretty low value, I dont see WHM getting over SCH in the meta from the DPS perspective.

[MsTanya]

Its more likely than not that stratagem is multiplicative, not a flat 20%, and you forgot aero 2 in the whm rotation, its 50 potency base hit and 50 potency per hit over 18 seconds for a total of 350 potency. I'm not gonna hardcore math anything but its a lot closer than you would think. But yeah ast gonna beat both other jobs out if the media tour values remain as is so it almost doesn't matter anyway ><.

[QooEr]

some math

did you see the excel spreadsheet? dps is never linear, and neither whm or scholar have rotations that reset at the same time. scholars rotation resets every 360 seconds and white mage's every 600 seconds. therefore in order to be fair one must get the average pps for scholar and white mage individually, from their own rotation. not only youre neglecting the existence of prescence of mind, but your analysis of gcds doesnt even account for spell speed.


white mage's potency per minute is not 6635 at 0 spell speed. it's 7092 (and thats not even counting cleric stance)
your numbers are also tilted because scholar gets 3 extra energy drains at the beginning of the fight

its also not as simple as how you put it for strategem. youre calculating it as if crit chance was 0 on every party member and strategem suddenly brought crits into the equation. an increase of 3.3 vs 0 is going to be way more impactful than an increase of 0.165 vs 0.1705. not only that, but youre disregarding the fact that critical hit rate (the stat) also affects how strong crits hit.

since we are approaching the beginning of the expansion, i used data from the beginning of heavensward. quoting myself,
After looking at gordias fflogs and 3.1 bis stats, and with help from some of dervy’s formulas, the average crit chance back then was approximately 0.165 and average crit damage around 1.565. The formula for the impact of critical hits on dps is crit chance * crit damage + 1 - crit chance, which means crits increased rdps by 1.093225 during early patches.
With this info, we can calculate stratagems average rdps impact.
Stratagem increases the chance to crit on the boss by 20%, for 15 seconds, every 90 seconds. Therefore, average crit chance increases by (15*1.2+75)/90 as fights approach to infinity. Stratagem affects rdps as follows.
(15*1.2+75)/90 * crit chance * crit damage + 1 - (15*1.2+75)/90 * crit chance
Substitute variables and we get
(15*1.2+75)/90 * 0.165 * 1.565 + 1 - (15*1.2+75)/90 * 0.165 = 1.0963325 rdps increase by crits
Substract that to the increase without stratagem and we get a difference of 0.31075% rdps.
Of course, stratagem’s effectiveness will increase as we get more crit to stack. Current values for crits tend to be around 22.38% crit chance and 1.62 for crit damage, which would make stratagem a 0.46% rdps increase for the later patches of stormblood. (i am assuming stratagem is multiplicative since its a debuff on the boss and not a buff on party members.)

[SecretCrowds]

Also honestly? Fuck the lilies. Nobody in their right mind is going to waste gcds in cures to proc lilies. Stop acting as if the lilies are detrimental to the job.

And that's the freaking point with all the complains BY THE WHM MAINS. I keep seeing non-WHM mains reverting to this "meta" argument when, if you actually look at the posts by the WHM mains, most are talking about other things, with lilies at the top of the list.

WHM is the only job, where if you remove the new Job HUD, it wouldn't make a freaking difference to the playstyle. Heck, you can remove the lilies HUD and the buff/debuff bar and WHM still won't be able to control their new Job design, unlike the other Jobs. Because of the current design of the lilies, the WHM HUD is nothing more than a glorified eye-candy. It's useless because you can't control when you get lilies and when you want to use those lilies.

Some examples. RDM can choose when and how to build their white and black magic and when they want to use them. AST can control when they want to draw cards (albeit being unable to choose what card they want) and when and how they want to use those cards.

Now, let's remove the abilities Aetherflow and Draw from SCH and AST respectively. Try to see how scholars will react if they can only get a chance of gaining aetherflow stacks by casting physick on party members. Or AST gets a chance to draw a card when they cast Benefic on party members. And tie the use of cards and aetherflow to commonly used abilities.

And don't get me started on how unrealistic and poorly designed Plenary Indulgence (the level 70 ability for WHM) is. 20% chance to proc a Confession stack on a party member. That equals to an average of 15 cures on each party member to get 3 stacks on them. 120 cures on everyone to get 3 confession stacks on 8 party members. Not to mention confession has a 30 second timer before it disappears. See how silly the design is? Making Cure 2 a 100% proc barely makes it better. I iwll run out of MP getting the entire party to get even 2 stacks each. And why would I want to even manually cast it on each member? By the time a huge aoe damage comes, the confession stacks would have ran out.

So, to all those non-WHM mains, please actually find out what the concerns are.

[Ethos]

And don't get me started on how unrealistic and poorly designed Plenary Indulgence (the level 70 ability for WHM) is. 20% chance to proc a Confession stack on a party member. That equals to an average of 15 cures on each party member to get 3 stacks on them. 120 cures on everyone to get 3 confession stacks on 8 party members. Not to mention confession has a 30 second timer before it disappears. See how silly the design is? Making Cure 2 a 100% proc barely makes it better. I iwll run out of MP getting the entire party to get even 2 stacks each. And why would I want to even manually cast it on each member? By the time a huge aoe damage comes, the confession stacks would have ran out.

If Cure 2 becomes a 100% chance to proc Confession then at least Cure 2 (Considering Plenary Indungence) would become the most MP efficient single target cast time heal every 15 seconds.

Cure 1 at level 70 shows being 450 potency and costs 600 mp for a ratio of .75 potency per MP.

Cure 2 at level 70 shows being 700 potency and costs 1200 mp for a ratio of about .58 potency per MP.

If Cure 2 gets a 100% chance to proc a stack of Confession then you can cast a Cure 2 and Plenary Indulgence with a single stack of Confession every 15 seconds for a total of 1100 potency at an MP cost of 1200 for a ratio of about .91 potency per MP. Obviously this would only be used primarily for tank healing but 1100 potency for 1 GCD would be quite substantial.

Regen will still be more MP efficient at 1050 potency for only 840 MP (1.25 potency per MP) however. If Cure 2 gets both a 100% chance to proc Confession and Gain a Lily then it would be a trade off of whether you want a 37% more efficient 1050 total potency HoT via Regen (every 21 seconds) vs a single GCD 700 + 400 potency heal and gain a lily from Cure 2 (every 15 seconds). With this Lily you could cast Divine Benison on the tank as well so a single cast of Cure 2 would become a 700 + 400 potency heal + 15% max HP shield.

[Sighearth]

Math

I assumed 3 Energy drains only not 6, so you have aetherflow off cd every minute from start. As someone mentioned before I forgot to add aero 2 ( I thought aero 3 would replace it). Yes I do not count for Presence of mind as I'm not counting for buffed gcds from other pt member that would make the potency bonus for crits higher. The metric I used for comparison was the most potency one healer can do in a minute.

For the crit chance I assumed the extra chance coming from the chain stratagem does not require your crit chance because will just add up to that ( even if its 0). Of course its speculation until the release if that skill will be multiplicative or additive. After the first minutes into the fight your dps will not increase but only decrease until your rotation resets, then you will have the scenario as the beginning of the fight ( with everything off cd) since this is the peak or opener of both healers, the rotation reset in different times but a reset will not surpass this opener.

If we take the reset in consideration as you said 360 s for SCH and 600 s for WHM , SCH will reach its peak more times than WHM, while WHM will reach a little bit higher with less frequency. Assuming your value of 7092 potency/rotation (600 s) vs 6635 potency/rotation (360) we have 1.6 SCH rotation for every 1 WHM rotation. That 0.6 extra rotation leads up to 3981 potency every (360 s) and the difference of both peaks is 457 potency for the WHM every (600 s)