Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

[Fyce]

Your not pleased that a phrase's synonyms can be so off. I mean I was given the page... linking try means linking those words too, they according to the site have the same relevance.

No, I edited my previous post and added my intent. Somehow in this thread I definitely got triggered and started pointing out people's misuse of words. Anyways it doesn't really matter, the people who demand DPS in this thread from at least my experience represent a small amount of actual players, or if they do they shut up when in the actual dungeon and just "go through it"

No, I'm just not pleased that, despite the 80 pages of this thread and multiple people telling you something, you still don't get it. I already gave you enough time and energy.
I tried my best.

[Welsper59]

I think it's courtesy to play the best you can when you are paired with random people. I don't care what you do with your friends and stuff. But when you are with random people maybe, and only maybe you should stop focusing on yourself and think about the others. And if you can't do that, maybe play only with your friends or play an offline game. I can't believe we are discussing if it is good not trying your best when you are paired with random people as a healer.

In the end of the day you can play however you want, but maybe instead of thinking to much about me me me me me me me me. You should think about the others. I'm healer and I will play as the best I can, and it won't bother me at all this discussion since I'm the one playing the healer role, but well... It's disappointing seeing all of you thinking that just doing the minimum required it's good enough when other people might be (or might be not, who knows) doing their best.

The bold is the heart of the matter and where people seem to be confused about what that word actually means. No side of the argument is "right" in every way on it. You, and everyone else who views it that way, are 100% right to say that players should show courtesy to others by doing what they reasonably can to make something better/smoother/faster. In other words, play decently as a team player. You don't have to kill yourself over trying to min/max literally everything you do, despite what some people think. I think that's where people saying to "play at your best" don't understand how word choice is important... don't use "best" without stated context.

Where the confusion on the matter comes from though (where they're wrong) is an unrealistic expectation of it. That courtesy is not an option, it's apparently a mandate to people here. Should people be courteous? Yes, absolutely. Is everyone going to be that way? F*** NO! What kind of made up utopia reality are people living in if they think that? Hell, even assuming "most" to be like that would be evidence enough to think someone is disconnected with reality, because you deny the likelihood of meeting the bad people (generally an inevitable fate).

Thus comes reflecting on courtesy. It's a two-way street that caters to more than just playstyle. Why not show a random stranger that, as far as we can tell, isn't a d-bag (said player is nice or fulfilling their role fine) some courtesy on your end? Wouldn't you let a friend laze a bit if they told you they were tired or whatever excuse? Hell, what if they weren't even in your party and you knew they were in that state while playing with randoms. Would you go out of your way to lecture them about their responsibility to uphold courtesy? I'd imagine said friend may have a negative social outlook about you after that. Courtesy is universal, right?

The reason why this argument even exists is because of a failure to accept reality. One denies logic and sound argument the moment they detach themselves from what is inevitably going to happen. As a result, many people gain unreasonable expectations of what needs to be, rather than what would simply be "ideal". What's equally disheartening to people defending the minimum are people that defend unreasonable expectations and ignore self accountability. I don't know if you are part of the latter, but there certainly are people defending it in this topic. Any occasion this subject is brought up, out comes mouth breathers with beliefs that are on-par with someone dumb enough to think you need to min/max Sastasha story. Not everything in a game needs to be taken as a literal life or death situation. You don't need to turn up your nose at someone for simply playing in a way you don't encourage if it's not interfering with success. We should encourage better play. Simultaneously however, we don't need to be douchebags about people that do their assigned roles and aren't causing groups to fail... courtesy, right?

[Noata]

Can you? ouo



Eh. It's two weeks before expansion. I'm not that surprised TBH.

Aww that's so cool, you managed to quote me and change what I said. I guess thanks.

[MeeDeggiThePunisher]

Oh my goodness it's 80 pages!

[Noata]

Fun Read

It was a lot to read, but basically yea, I always try to keep posts relatively small and to keep it simple but I believe what you said illustrates what I feel, Don't mandate courtesy is pretty much my stance. Besides it is almost paradoxical, mandating courtesy isn't very courteous

[Starmies]

[KisaiTenshi]

This sounds like a group project in highschool.
There's 4 students, one jumps up and says, "I wanna be the ideas person!!" The rest of the group sort of sighs and says ok.
The project starts, the ideas person does in fact come up with ideas, awesome. Work on the project starts, the ideas person is now on their phone. When asked why they aren't helping. "I come up with ideas! You guys do the rest! I only wanted to do ideas! Don't tell me what to do!!"

"Just healing" doesn't require full-time attention/effort in equivalence to tanking or dpsing properly. You have a right to be lazy, sure. Others have a right to call you out on it and potentially kick you if they want.

I personally don't even care in roulettes, but I'll continue to DPS as a healer myself, because I try to be considerate of others.

That's a terrible analogy. If anything it's backwards. One person does everything, and the rest of the group just sits there on their phones because the "leader" thinks they are too incompetent to help, and they take no interest in the project. Thus the leader carries everyone. Next time a school project comes up, everyone wants that leader to carry them. Speaking from experience here as that person carrying the deadweight, in such projects I'd ask the teacher to just let me do the project myself because "the other people you partnered me with express no interest in this project, let alone this class"

The right analogy is the cooking class, where you are assigned groups and you can not do the entire project yourself within the time limit. In high school one person was assigned to wash and dry dishes as they are used so that they could get out of the class earlier. Because I got the equivilent of the "bad PUG" table every time where they would rarely even show up to class, I got to do most assignments solo. Once in a while I got dropped into someone elses group because one of their group was legitimately sick, and thus assigned to wash and dry dishes because that's the only role they felt expendable from their team synergy. You know, the one that controls how if they leave class in time.

If I've established a pattern of anything, is that I'm skeptical about the competence of people I'm in a group with until they prove otherwise. Hence in FFXIV, I stick to healing until I see competence, and most PUG's are somewhere between "passable" and "good", while raiders are usually the most incompetent. The most incompetent group I've had so far was a group of three from a raider guild on another server, who ignored the mechanics of everything.

CureI CureII: {Hello!}
Pure Healer: Salut !
Healer Onlyheals: Hi
Youdont Paymysub: o/
...
Pure Healer: lol que des heals
Healer Onlyheals: What?
Youdont Paymysub: 4 healers, great... thanks Yoshi-P
CureI CureII: So, how are we supposed to do this?
Healer Onlyheals: What do you mean?
CureI CureII: Well, we have to kill stuff to progress, right?
Youdont Paymysub: no lol
Youdont Paymysub: that's not my role
Youdont Paymysub: im a healer dude
Youdont Paymysub: dps is for dps
Pure Healer: y a des français ?
Healer Onlyheals: Same for me, I don't even have DPS skills on my bars
Healer Onlyheals: But I can draw cards, can that helps?
CureI CureII: I don't think so...
Pure Healer: oups g marché sur un piège qui fait spawn des mobs lol
Healer Onlyheals: What is that baguette saying?
CureI CureII: he walked on a trap that spawns mobs I think
Youdont Paymysub: ill start healing him
Youdont Paymysub: ...
Youdont Paymysub: oh god i have aggro
Healer Onlyheals: Don't worry, I'm here, I'm gonna heal you!
CureI CureII: And I'm gonna heal you too! It's my job after all, none of you will die today!

... Later ...
... Way later ...
... On the same floor ...

...
00:07
00:06
00:05
Youdont Paymysub: atleast nobody died
00:04
00:03
00:02
CureI CureII: Yeah, good job us
00:01
Healer Onlyheals: We did what our role was about, this game is badly designed
00:00
Pure Healer: personne est français lol ?

That's funny but terribly out of character. The same thing would happen if they were all raider healers, they would all put up regen and medica II and then fail the duty when they never switch out of CS.

Ahaha

Still prattling on with this nonsense, I see. How many people have to tell you healers have ample downtime before it sinks in? I have literally had 80-90% Cleric up time. Considering you have not even unlocked HW content, perhaps it's best you don't try and project an opinion you have no right backing?

And this is where your lack of healer knowledge shows. Stoneskin is practically worthless. You only bother with Stoneskin II because it's essentially free pre-pull, otherwise you'll mostly only touch Stoneskin if someone dies. You certainly aren't "cheesing" dungeons with it. You know how I "cheese" dungeons? By going Noct and placing what will soon by a 300% shield on the tank.

Do you still not know what sarcasm is? That entire second paragraph denoted by ~, the one you took as serious. Raiders have repeatedly said they use stone skin when they know a tankbuster is coming up, so please, keep trolling.

What bothers me most about it isn't that Yoshi-P said it, it's that this came from Mr.Happy. And for some reason or another, there's a massive amount of players that seem to take whatever he says as the word of God.
Meaning now there's probably going to be a tidal wave of mediocre healers that refuse to DPS, 'because Mr.Happy said so'.

Now it will be "Because Yoshi-P said so because Mr.Happy Asked", do you all see the problem with walkthroughs, guides and video tutorials? Mr.Happy likely has to redo all his videos for all the 2.0, 3.0 and now 4.0 content because of these changes, because all the skill changes makes most of these videos advice no longer viable. Sure you may still know what the mechanics are, but more than one person in this thread I'm sure is in the "omg, a newbie, did you watch a video, otherwise I'm going to kick" camp because that seems to be the mantra of raiders "be perfect or get lost"

[Ama_Hamada]

That's funny but terribly out of character. The same thing would happen if they were all raider healers, they would all put up regen and medica II and then fail the duty when they never switch out of CS.

I do not understand how someone can be this.. idk, someone being detached from reality.

Because saying healers never need to DPS because it is optional IS WRONG:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBgM...youtu.be&t=557
Because i requires such low effort. It is an insult to everyone putting in effort.

weird they change the text when I did the quest on an alt recently


It is also too hard to ask you to think and respond to what people say about healers and if they should dps or not, a reply is waiting:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4182033
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4181168

Still waiting to hear you explain why a shield using healer out dps - 2 dps, and a tank while the pure healer that had regens did not manage to outheal the AST while doing less dps then a range lb

[Fyce]

I do not understand how someone can be this.. idk, someone being detached from reality.

That's a troll. We saw it on the previous thread. Don't bother answering.

[akaneakki]

Can you? ouo?

But-But-But... why else am I gonna let my party intentionally wipe if I don't spend my entire time dpsing? The healer must dps meta is my excuse to not heal my groups, without that excuse I'll have to actually do my jerb...

It's really sad how much you show how you really are. It's nothing but trolling and full of toxic acts.

And sure, this person here say its fine for tanks to not use cooldown or maim combo etc. This quote really states her/his opinion on it too, in fact you been part of it before as well.

except theres no rule set by SE on how to play this game , but some meta set up from someone whos thinking that the only way to play the game is his way :P

Everyone has their own opinon, which is fine. But this person also stated it's fine to wipe in raids for very long time or farm groups, because it's fun. Many keep forgetting it's not fun for the rest of the group either. It's neither fun when 3/7/23 people pull their hardest (which can be from 75-85% optimized) and they have 1 person slacking. You both have right for your own opinion but you both talk like it's all about you or them. It really isn't. When I play with others, I play for the group and not myself, so please keep the toxic attitude away.

Again - Nobody expect extreme standar gameplay in any content, they want people to contribute -as much- as they do. Sitting around healing every 20 seconds isn't contributing at all, it's far from it. If you expect yourself to play like that, don't even expect others to do their job either as in, contributing for the group. Tank using CD helps healers, DPS killing things faster, contributes for both healer and tank. Less CD use, less healing = more MP. If healer contributes with the best mitigation in game, which is dead boss or adds. Nobody expects perfect gameplay either, but yet, you Thunda act like it (check the quote I quoted you on).

That's a terrible analogy"

You said it's also a myth healers have downtime, you never responded to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBgM...youtu.be&t=565
The sad part is many in here, extremely many in here are actually thinking this is fine. It's funny they all say people who ask to contribute to the group, are elitist, toxic etc. When they sit on their butt expecting others to play well and they don't do anything. Did you guys know being ego is actually toxic? Well now you know.