Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

[AlphaSonic]

Just because you have the same objective doesn't mean you have to do everything in your power possible to do it. You don't see Melees Always getting positionals on trash mobs that your nuking down? you don't see the tank always optimally DPS, Just because the objective is to clear a dungeon doesn't mean they have to do what you think is best... It just means... hey we are all working toward this one goal. Demanding people do what you want because you think it is the best way to get the objective is one sided. I think your opinion of what is best is what your trying to force on others. and step one is to understand your in a group, and the only thing you 100% control is you as the individual

I think it's courtesy to play the best you can when you are paired with random people. I don't care what you do with your friends and stuff. But when you are with random people maybe, and only maybe you should stop focusing on yourself and think about the others. And if you can't do that, maybe play only with your friends or play an offline game. I can't believe we are discussing if it is good not trying your best when you are paired with random people as a healer.

In the end of the day you can play however you want, but maybe instead of thinking to much about me me me me me me me me. You should think about the others. I'm healer and I will play as the best I can, and it won't bother me at all this discussion since I'm the one playing the healer role, but well... It's disappointing seeing all of you thinking that just doing the minimum required it's good enough when other people might be (or might be not, who knows) doing their best.

[Noata]

I think it's courtesy to play the best you can when you are paired with random people. I don't care what you do with your friends and stuff. But when you are with random people maybe, and only maybe you should stop focusing on yourself and think about the others. And if you can't do that, maybe play only with your friends or play an offline game. I can't believe we are discussing if it is good not trying your best when you are paired with random people as a healer.

In the end of the day you can play however you want, but maybe instead of thinking to much about me me me me me me me me. You should think about the others. I'm healer and I will play as the best I can, and it won't bother me at all this discussion since I'm the one playing the healer role, but well. It's disappointing seeing all of you thinking that just doing the minimum required it's good enough when other people might be (or might be not, who knows) are doing their best.

I have never said be selfish, Besides I highly doubt you pop potions during regular DF runs and eat food to do your "Best" You settle for what you think is sufficient and all I am saying is you are grouping with multiple people, with their own plan on how they are going to play, you can suggest things.. but expecting people to do everything you say, or think they should be doing isn't going to happen.

[AlphaSonic]

I have never said be selfish, Besides I highly doubt you pop potions during regular DF runs and eat food to do your "Best" You settle for what you think is sufficient and all I am saying is you are grouping with multiple people, with their own plan on how they are going to play, you can suggest things.. but expecting people to do everything you say, or think they should be doing isn't going to happen.

You know what I'm talking about by doing your best and it doesn't include Potions and stuff that even if they are useful, not everyone can have them. You just decide to pick whatever you want from what I write and then use it to fit your narrative even if it's in a complete different context. Don't answer me, I don't like you and I have very negative feelings towards you.

[Welsper59]

I think it's courtesy to play the best you can when you are paired with random people. I don't care what you do with your friends and stuff. But when you are with random people maybe, and only maybe you should stop focusing on yourself and think about the others. And if you can't do that, maybe play only with your friends or play an offline game. I can't believe we are discussing if it is good not trying your best when you are paired with random people as a healer.

In the end of the day you can play however you want, but maybe instead of thinking to much about me me me me me me me me. You should think about the others. I'm healer and I will play as the best I can, and it won't bother me at all this discussion since I'm the one playing the healer role, but well... It's disappointing seeing all of you thinking that just doing the minimum required it's good enough when other people might be (or might be not, who knows) doing their best.

The bold is the heart of the matter and where people seem to be confused about what that word actually means. No side of the argument is "right" in every way on it. You, and everyone else who views it that way, are 100% right to say that players should show courtesy to others by doing what they reasonably can to make something better/smoother/faster. In other words, play decently as a team player. You don't have to kill yourself over trying to min/max literally everything you do, despite what some people think. I think that's where people saying to "play at your best" don't understand how word choice is important... don't use "best" without stated context.

Where the confusion on the matter comes from though (where they're wrong) is an unrealistic expectation of it. That courtesy is not an option, it's apparently a mandate to people here. Should people be courteous? Yes, absolutely. Is everyone going to be that way? F*** NO! What kind of made up utopia reality are people living in if they think that? Hell, even assuming "most" to be like that would be evidence enough to think someone is disconnected with reality, because you deny the likelihood of meeting the bad people (generally an inevitable fate).

Thus comes reflecting on courtesy. It's a two-way street that caters to more than just playstyle. Why not show a random stranger that, as far as we can tell, isn't a d-bag (said player is nice or fulfilling their role fine) some courtesy on your end? Wouldn't you let a friend laze a bit if they told you they were tired or whatever excuse? Hell, what if they weren't even in your party and you knew they were in that state while playing with randoms. Would you go out of your way to lecture them about their responsibility to uphold courtesy? I'd imagine said friend may have a negative social outlook about you after that. Courtesy is universal, right?

The reason why this argument even exists is because of a failure to accept reality. One denies logic and sound argument the moment they detach themselves from what is inevitably going to happen. As a result, many people gain unreasonable expectations of what needs to be, rather than what would simply be "ideal". What's equally disheartening to people defending the minimum are people that defend unreasonable expectations and ignore self accountability. I don't know if you are part of the latter, but there certainly are people defending it in this topic. Any occasion this subject is brought up, out comes mouth breathers with beliefs that are on-par with someone dumb enough to think you need to min/max Sastasha story. Not everything in a game needs to be taken as a literal life or death situation. You don't need to turn up your nose at someone for simply playing in a way you don't encourage if it's not interfering with success. We should encourage better play. Simultaneously however, we don't need to be douchebags about people that do their assigned roles and aren't causing groups to fail... courtesy, right?

[Noata]

Fun Read

It was a lot to read, but basically yea, I always try to keep posts relatively small and to keep it simple but I believe what you said illustrates what I feel, Don't mandate courtesy is pretty much my stance. Besides it is almost paradoxical, mandating courtesy isn't very courteous