DEV Request: Please do not make DRK a 1-2-3 like PLD was

[AzraelX]

I know things have already been decided or are still in the works. People complained about PLD only being 1-2-3 combo....and it seems DRK knight is being made into this in 4.0 Please give us back delirium as our finisher please. I hate to leave tanking b/c of this.

[Kaiden019]

I think it's a little late for requests

[itti18]

if you dont DA SE then it's the old delirium combo ,
I dont see how dark knight became 1-2-3 because of this change

the only thing that changed is losing delirium intelligence debuff and animation

[TouchandFeel]

I personally feel the reactions of "we're going to be 1-2-3 bots now that we lost the Delerium combo" are greatly exaggerated.

With being able to DA two of the three weapon-skills of the SE combo, that single combo ends up having multiple variations which I feel is cooler and more complex than an additional 3-part combo that is only one button-press different. Also, with the debuffs being removed from combos, the Delerium combo lost its point and became unnecessary/redundant.

A post I made about this in another thread goes into a bit more detail.

This is an interesting point.

While the Delerium combo was removed, the Soul Eater combo itself has multiple variations that can be performed since not only can you DA the Soul Eater ability but now also Syphon Strike, giving potentially 3 viable variants; No DA combo, DA -> SE combo, DA -> SS+SE combo.

I think it would be awesome and a good idea if the DA effect for Syphon Strike not only increased potency but also had a "give X resource" effect as well such as adding to the blood gauge or a mp refresh for Y seconds. That way it would add a 4th viable variant of DAing just Syphon for that resource gain if you decide you would prefer that over the heal from Soul Eater. Either that or give it a slight potency edge over a DAed SE so you have the options of dps or defense/self-heal.

Something like this would add complexity to a single combo and more than make up for the loss of the Delerium combo.

[Shurrikhan]

I think it's a little late for requests

A combat designer 5 weeks ago: "It's never too late to cripple a job's gameplay!"

[mcspamm]

if you dont DA SE then it's the old delirium combo ,
I dont see how dark knight became 1-2-3 because of this change

the only thing that changed is losing delirium intelligence debuff and animation

There's a 500 potency attack called "Scourge" that would disagree with your assessment (RIP Scourge ).

Besides, you should be using DA+SE periodically anyway.

[Reynhart]

With being able to DA two of the three weapon-skills of the SE combo, that single combo ends up having multiple variations which I feel is cooler and more complex than an additional 3-part combo that is only one button-press different.

That would be true if Dark Arts didn't have the exact same effect on Syphon Strike and Soul Eater.
Basically, wether you do HS > DA+SS > SE or HS > SS > DA+SE, you're doing the same overall damage. And since SE grants HP with Grit on, you'll basically always chose HS > SS > DA+SE.
Of course, you can do HS > DA+SS > DA+SE but it still only adds damage.

Like I said on another topic, if would be cool if Syphon Strike and Soul Eater have a different effect wether you use Dark Arts or not. Syphon could still HP instead og MP and Soul Eater could have two new additionnal effects.
That would really give you more variations with only 3 skills.

[Xenosan]

For there to be no combo rotation / priority at all is overkill.

[Lyth]

This topic keeps coming up, for some reason.

In 3.x, the delirium combo has 227 average potency/gcd. The base SE combo has 220 average potency/gcd. The power slash combo has 223 average potency/gcd. As you can see, you never use the base SE combo. The reason why SE exists is so that you can, at one specific point in your combo cycle, use DA as a 120 potency oGCD. If you accidentally hit SE without activating SE, you just lose dps.

In 4.0, the base SE combo potency has been boosted to 227 average potency/gcd, identical to your old delirium combo. The new base SE combo, which you never previously used, is now functionally identical to the delirium combo. The only thing that has changed is that you can use DA as a 140 potency oGCD combo at any point in your cycle. The reason that this is changed is because MP no longer drains in Darkside, so you will have to actively work significantly harder to burn off extra MP in order to ensure that you do not cap, especially when BW is up.

Here's another point worth considering. In 3.x, PLD gains 5-6% extra average damage reduction in physical fights from block procs. DRK gains about the same in single target from Reprisal procs. WAR makes up with self-healing and baseline parry bonuses (because yeah, axe fencing is the vogue nowadays). With the change to block in 4.0, and the loss of the old Reprisal, you can expect DRK and WAR to take more damage on average. WAR's combo changes force more SP usage, offsetting this with more consistent self-healing. The DRK combo changes do something similar, as long as you're in Grit, as more SE combos give you more lifesteal. The one problem is that this doesn't help you out of Grit.

Maybe if you ask the devs, they'll let you glamour Delirium's animation back in, like the SMN Egi-Glamours (I'd definitely glamour Scourge on to something if this happened). But functionally, it was a beneficial change on several levels.

[Decederes]

I don't think you're getting the base argument here. It is still, regardless, one combo now. Hard Slash combo is nearly never used, and now we don't even have to think between using DA SE and Delirium. It's one combo. They could have done it better, and given us incentive to use the Hard Slash combo (maybe add a mini version of Scourge to it). Anything to prevent the bore that is our rotation now. And if BN and BS remain GCD's then that creates even more issues and even more boredom.

A year and a half to figure this out and having this be the end result is flat out lazy.