We're all DDs now >.>

[Ama_Hamada]

I'm not blaming the skill at all. While I main MCH, I do play SCH quite a bit, and I do DPS a lot. I was just saying that because of the "healers have to DPS" mentality that a lot of the playerbase has, there are an abundance of healers such as that where they end up DPSing more than healing. It's all about DPSing at the right time and place, but it's getting harder and harder to find healers in DF content that realize that. Yes, those healers are absolutely bad healers as a result. My point was that the community's mentality that I've seen more than a few times of "ifyou're not DPSing, you're a bad healer" is what has created such players.....

I disagree on the idea it is the community that made bad players, since the other end also exists, "you are a bad healer if you use cleric stance and need to drop it", I posted a few stories in that horror DF thing. "Healers always need to have protect" was told to me in a level 18 guildhest. People over dps for one reason, tunnel vision, being aware is a rare skill for the mass, speaking of, this next person is an example of that:

OH REALLY~?

So tell me how these so called "I have more DPS as a healer than the DPS characters" people are keeping track of these numbers then? Are they frame-by-frame counting everything they see while playing the dungeon they are recording? Absolute nonsense. There is a website out there that people have been using to log their parsers, and they are not shy about using them.

The cleric stance or rocks hitting the mobs doesn't tell you anything about zero-cast's like benediction, assize and tetra, or anything swiftcast'd. It's easy to tell when the healer is doing healing because half the things they can do are HoT's and have indications that hey are active. You don't know if they threw Stone III once or 20 times during that encounter unless you were parsing it.

So please, all the people I see arguing for healers to DPS and bragging about how good they are at it, are almost guaranteed to be using parsers.

I posted a video, one that calls this post completely wrong. Let me tell you something, it did not take long at all after watching a few steams of FFXIV who run prasers to know how long something takes to die. If you are experience enough, you know how long something lives if you have 2 dps doing 2k dps, 2 dps doing 1k and if the tank is being trash. the enmity meter also plays a part, but it will not tell the full story esp to a smn to a single target. I even implied that idea when I told you how long that boss can take, typically average can still beat it with only 1 healer collar (2 spears) but 4 gold like people can kill it even before the first healer collar, while that link had 2 healer collars because the MNK was really horrible along with the tank.

In the end, you are ignoring everything people are saying, you said healers having huge downtime is a myth, dispute showing 2 videos. You said you need pure heal in bad parties, and that is true to an extent, but you STILL will have room to dps, like the video I shown. The fact you can't even tell that the tank was lousy in not only keeping hate but dps as well reflects your inexperience. Experience players do not need prasers at all to know if DPS is slow or not and by looking at actions and buffs, can pinpoint who the weak link is. If a SMN is "2" on a boss, that SMN is wiping the floor hard over everyone else. (Since they can still be top dps but 4-5 on the enmity ranking with 8 people, pet really effects thier dps big time and you can't see that.)

If you think people can't know how well people are doing without meters you are even more clueless then I thought in my last post. Yes people can tell if someone cast stone III once or 20, its called counting.

[KisaiTenshi]

If you think people can't know how well people are doing without meters you are even more clueless then I thought in my last post. Yes people can tell if someone cast stone III once or 20, its called counting.

During the dungeon itself? Don't make me laugh~. The only stupid thing that keeps being said in this thread is people thinking that not DPS'ing as a healer is bad.

[Xx-ReiN-xX]

I main tank and Yes! we can monitor others performance while doing our jobs. It's not hard to see whose lazy without any kind of parser.

[Ama_Hamada]

During the dungeon itself? Don't make me laugh~. The only stupid thing that keeps being said in this thread is people thinking that not DPS'ing as a healer is bad.

Yeah!! I can as well, it only takes the end of the first pull (maybe even during the first pull) to tell how good the other 3 members are. If it is slow I start looking exactly the reason is. Is the DRG keeping heavy thrust on? Is the MNK keeping GL3 on? is the mnk consistently high tp? does the mnk have enmityon different monsters? (I seen a pure single target mnk and I called out on it since I noticed him tanking one monster while having no hate on everything else) is the BLm casting fire II/flare? thunder? Is the 1092132219832981981 bad brd spamming wide volley, is the brd full mp? ... there is lots of clues you can see, you just think people can't know because your awareness is weak along with your observation skills and innate clock (things taking longer then normal what is going on?)

You want an example that people do this?:
https://youtu.be/eC8PuW58I-M?t=104
She selected herself on purpose to see if people where doing enough damage to the collar (and they weren't, making the SMN doing all the work) It is important to know what is going on and who may be a weak link so if a wipe happens you can coach them. (if that collar is not destroyed fast enough the healer dies)

The Boss isn't dying fast enough, MUST be the healer, cause clearly those DPS are overgeared to the teeth and must be facerolling their rotations~.

You just watched a video on why this is WRONG!, it is EASY to see the fight is slow because of bad tank and mnk FFS has nothing to do with healer dps.

The thing is, people with parsers kick the lowest performer, people without, abandon the instance.

Stop throwing around stawmans, You said large downtime is a myth, admitting that is wrong now?

[KisaiTenshi]

I main tank and Yes! we can monitor others performance while doing our jobs. It's not hard to see whose lazy without any kind of parser.

The Boss isn't dying fast enough, MUST be the healer, cause clearly those DPS are overgeared to the teeth and must be facerolling their rotations~.

It's not that I don't believe you, but people in this thread and other's over the last few years have stated that there is no way to know the DPS values for any player in the party without violating the ToS of the game. If the boss isn't dying fast enough and it screws up your speed run, TOO BAD~.

Here we have a thread where people are pooh-poohing healers who aren't helping their speed runs, and yet they themselves are trying to say that they actually spent time checking everyone's gear and watching skills, while doing their role in the party. Nonsense. If you were checking that stuff you would be wasting your own time during the run.

The thing is, people with parsers kick the lowest performer, people without, abandon the instance.

[Shurrikhan]

The Boss isn't dying fast enough, MUST be the healer, cause clearly those DPS are overgeared to the teeth and must be facerolling their rotations~.

It's not that I don't believe you, but people in this thread and other's over the last few years have stated that there is no way to know the DPS values for any player in the party without violating the ToS of the game. If the boss isn't dying fast enough and it screws up your speed run, TOO BAD~.

They've stated quite the opposite, as far as I've seen. If one knows how to play the classes in question, it becomes obvious when one is not being played near to its potential so long as one is willing to expend the effort to watch them.

In DX12 I lose a little over 40% of my fps by playing in Windowed Borderless. A parser, therefore, would only be useful between fights. Yet I have no trouble seeing rotations that catch my negative interest, gradually shifting my attention towards that player, finding the mistakes, offering advice and, as often as not, seeing kill speeds improve as a result. The other half threaten to ban me for saying "I notice you haven't been using your DoTs despite mobs being up for more ticks than are necessary to make your DoTs more efficient than your direct damage," — in other words, making the same baseless assumption as you are here.

tl;dr: I'm really tired of people threatening to get others banned for offering rotational advice or pointing out obvious shortfalls as an alternative to improving as players. Information is not the enemy. Negligence, perhaps.

[Kaisinel]

During the dungeon itself? Don't make me laugh~. The only stupid thing that keeps being said in this thread is people thinking that not DPS'ing as a healer is bad.

/10char

[KisaiTenshi]

They've stated quite the opposite, as far as I've seen. If one knows how to play the classes in question, it becomes obvious when one is not being played near to its potential so long as one is willing to expend the effort to watch them.

In DX12 I lose a little over 40% of my fps by playing in Windowed Borderless. A parser, therefore, would only be useful between fights. Yet I have no trouble seeing rotations that catch my negative interest, gradually shifting my attention towards that player, finding the mistakes, offering advice and, as often as not, seeing kill speeds improve as a result. The other half threaten to ban me for saying "I notice you haven't been using your DoTs despite mobs being up for more ticks than are necessary to make your DoTs more efficient than your direct damage," — in other words, making the same baseless assumption as you are here.

tl;dr: I'm really tired of people threatening to get others banned for offering rotational advice or pointing out obvious shortfalls as an alternative to improving as players. Information is not the enemy. Negligence, perhaps.

The fact that you can even describe a parser tells me you've used one. Every data-mined thing about this game was acquired via such activity. So no, it's only obvious that someone is not playing to their potential when they are not even trying.

If someone is playing a healer, they have no down time or the party would be dead in 5 seconds. People who are accusing non-DPS'ing healers of being lazy, have no idea how the other person is playing the game, and telling them to use whatever some wiki says, does not teach them the mechanics of the game, it only tells them you think they are not smart enough to play the game at all.

[Ama_Hamada]

The fact that you can even describe a parser tells me you've used one. Every data-mined thing about this game was acquired via such activity. So no, it's only obvious that someone is not playing to their potential when they are not even trying.

If someoneis playing a healer, they have no down time or the party would be dead in 5 seconds. People who are accusing non-DPS'ing healers of being lazy, have no idea how the other person is playing the game, and telling them to use whatever some wiki says, does not teach them the mechanics of the game, it only tells them you think they are not smart enough to play the game at all.

Nope:

Yeah!! I can as well, it only takes the end of the first pull (maybe even during the first pull) to tell how good the other 3 members are. If it is slow I start looking exactly the reason is. Is the DRG keeping heavy thrust on? Is the MNK keeping GL3 on? is the mnk consistently high tp? does the mnk have enmityon different monsters? (I seen a pure single target mnk and I called out on it since I noticed him tanking one monster while having no hate on everything else) is the BLm casting fire II/flare? thunder? Is the 1092132219832981981 bad brd spamming wide volley, is the brd full mp? ... there is lots of clues you can see, you just think people can't know because your awareness is weak along with your observation skills and innate clock (things taking longer then normal what is going on?)

You want an example that people do this?:
https://youtu.be/eC8PuW58I-M?t=104
She selected herself on purpose to see if people where doing enough damage to the collar (and they weren't, making the SMN doing all the work) It is important to know what is going on and who may be a weak link so if a wipe happens you can coach them. (if that collar is not destroyed fast enough the healer dies)



You just watched a video on why this is WRONG!, it is EASY to see the fight is slow because of bad tank and mnk FFS has nothing to do with healer dps.

Stop throwing around stawmans, You said large downtime is a myth, admitting that is wrong now?

Do you read what people say here at all? Is my own enmity high compared to the tank? are they are grit dropping/ deliverance switching tank to have my enmity higher then normal to theirs? Are they eating too much Mp for me to comment? There is lots of things you can tell without prasers, quit throwing out red herrings and admit being wrong about healer DPS. It is quite clear you are just beating around the bush trying to keep alive.

large healing downtime is not a myth, something else you seem to be dodging. There is videos showing it is not a myth, where are the videos on your play style?

[Lambdafish]

If someone is playing a healer, they have no down time or the party would be dead in 5 seconds. People who are accusing non-DPS'ing healers of being lazy, have no idea how the other person is playing the game, and telling them to use whatever some wiki says, does not teach them the mechanics of the game, it only tells them you think they are not smart enough to play the game at all.

I'd be confused if you hadn't already told us your horribly inefficient method of healing that for some reason you champion, and thats not me telling you that you aren't smart enough to play the game, im making a comment on your ignorance and disregard towards the game mechanics and your peers who play the role well.