We're all DDs now >.>

[Ama_Hamada]

During the dungeon itself? Don't make me laugh~. The only stupid thing that keeps being said in this thread is people thinking that not DPS'ing as a healer is bad.

Yeah!! I can as well, it only takes the end of the first pull (maybe even during the first pull) to tell how good the other 3 members are. If it is slow I start looking exactly the reason is. Is the DRG keeping heavy thrust on? Is the MNK keeping GL3 on? is the mnk consistently high tp? does the mnk have enmityon different monsters? (I seen a pure single target mnk and I called out on it since I noticed him tanking one monster while having no hate on everything else) is the BLm casting fire II/flare? thunder? Is the 1092132219832981981 bad brd spamming wide volley, is the brd full mp? ... there is lots of clues you can see, you just think people can't know because your awareness is weak along with your observation skills and innate clock (things taking longer then normal what is going on?)

You want an example that people do this?:
https://youtu.be/eC8PuW58I-M?t=104
She selected herself on purpose to see if people where doing enough damage to the collar (and they weren't, making the SMN doing all the work) It is important to know what is going on and who may be a weak link so if a wipe happens you can coach them. (if that collar is not destroyed fast enough the healer dies)

The Boss isn't dying fast enough, MUST be the healer, cause clearly those DPS are overgeared to the teeth and must be facerolling their rotations~.

You just watched a video on why this is WRONG!, it is EASY to see the fight is slow because of bad tank and mnk FFS has nothing to do with healer dps.

The thing is, people with parsers kick the lowest performer, people without, abandon the instance.

Stop throwing around stawmans, You said large downtime is a myth, admitting that is wrong now?

[Ama_Hamada]

The fact that you can even describe a parser tells me you've used one. Every data-mined thing about this game was acquired via such activity. So no, it's only obvious that someone is not playing to their potential when they are not even trying.

If someoneis playing a healer, they have no down time or the party would be dead in 5 seconds. People who are accusing non-DPS'ing healers of being lazy, have no idea how the other person is playing the game, and telling them to use whatever some wiki says, does not teach them the mechanics of the game, it only tells them you think they are not smart enough to play the game at all.

Nope:

Yeah!! I can as well, it only takes the end of the first pull (maybe even during the first pull) to tell how good the other 3 members are. If it is slow I start looking exactly the reason is. Is the DRG keeping heavy thrust on? Is the MNK keeping GL3 on? is the mnk consistently high tp? does the mnk have enmityon different monsters? (I seen a pure single target mnk and I called out on it since I noticed him tanking one monster while having no hate on everything else) is the BLm casting fire II/flare? thunder? Is the 1092132219832981981 bad brd spamming wide volley, is the brd full mp? ... there is lots of clues you can see, you just think people can't know because your awareness is weak along with your observation skills and innate clock (things taking longer then normal what is going on?)

You want an example that people do this?:
https://youtu.be/eC8PuW58I-M?t=104
She selected herself on purpose to see if people where doing enough damage to the collar (and they weren't, making the SMN doing all the work) It is important to know what is going on and who may be a weak link so if a wipe happens you can coach them. (if that collar is not destroyed fast enough the healer dies)



You just watched a video on why this is WRONG!, it is EASY to see the fight is slow because of bad tank and mnk FFS has nothing to do with healer dps.

Stop throwing around stawmans, You said large downtime is a myth, admitting that is wrong now?

Do you read what people say here at all? Is my own enmity high compared to the tank? are they are grit dropping/ deliverance switching tank to have my enmity higher then normal to theirs? Are they eating too much Mp for me to comment? There is lots of things you can tell without prasers, quit throwing out red herrings and admit being wrong about healer DPS. It is quite clear you are just beating around the bush trying to keep alive.

large healing downtime is not a myth, something else you seem to be dodging. There is videos showing it is not a myth, where are the videos on your play style?

[Hamada]

With 1 healer you have person with prey to either Ranged or tank. I would go with tanks for less dmg while melee stand between x2 fire puddles. And bullshit that she says people die in 5 second. Me and the ast did over 1.3k dps before numbers in 11s. In fact never left cleric for nearly a min and half. I know when damage comes and not. Kinda funny the fact Sch in my seller linkshell does 1.4k dps in 12s while second healer is at 900. Hmmmmm....

This is a static though right? If the tag for the other pray (not the person you trade it to) is random then I think that is asking too much from PF, but after tagged for the first time it is the same person?

KisaiTenshi, do you really lack the ability to see who is doing poor DPS? I mean if you have a lot of experience you learn how fast things can die, what jobs do what, etc.

Requoting since too much posts passed by for them to see it:

Nope:

Yeah!! I can as well, it only takes the end of the first pull (maybe even during the first pull) to tell how good the other 3 members are. If it is slow I start looking exactly the reason is. Is the DRG keeping heavy thrust on? Is the MNK keeping GL3 on? is the mnk consistently high tp? does the mnk have enmityon different monsters? (I seen a pure single target mnk and I called out on it since I noticed him tanking one monster while having no hate on everything else) is the BLm casting fire II/flare? thunder? Is the 1092132219832981981 bad brd spamming wide volley, is the brd full mp? ... there is lots of clues you can see, you just think people can't know because your awareness is weak along with your observation skills and innate clock (things taking longer then normal what is going on?)

You want an example that people do this?:
https://youtu.be/eC8PuW58I-M?t=104
She selected herself on purpose to see if people where doing enough damage to the collar (and they weren't, making the SMN doing all the work) It is important to know what is going on and who may be a weak link so if a wipe happens you can coach them. (if that collar is not destroyed fast enough the healer dies)



You just watched a video on why this is WRONG!, it is EASY to see the fight is slow because of bad tank and mnk FFS has nothing to do with healer dps.

Stop throwing around stawmans, You said large downtime is a myth, admitting that is wrong now?

Do you read what people say here at all? Is my own enmity high compared to the tank? are they are grit dropping/ deliverance switching tank to have my enmity higher then normal to theirs? Are they eating too much Mp for me to comment? There is lots of things you can tell without prasers, quit throwing out red herrings and admit being wrong about healer DPS. It is quite clear you are just beating around the bush trying to keep alive.

large healing downtime is not a myth, something else you seem to be dodging. There is videos showing it is not a myth, where are the videos on your play style?

[KisaiTenshi]

This is a static though right? If the tag for the other pray (not the person you trade it to) is random then I think that is asking too much from PF, but after tagged for the first time it is the same person?

KisaiTenshi, do you really lack the ability to see who is doing poor DPS? I mean if you have a lot of experience you learn how fast things can die, what jobs do what, etc.

This thread is a broken record. If the DPS players are doing poorly, you will either run out of mana from the boss taking too long without even DPS'ing yourself, or they will take a dirt nap immediately after being resurrected from standing in an AOE and not get resurrected again until after the fight.

This gawd awful raider mentality that if you're not constantly casting medica II, you're not healing anyone, raiders keep ignoring the mechanics of the regular content.

Maybe y'all need to go buy level 49 crafted gear and go play the level 50 dungeons again and remember how to actually play the mechanics~. Don't y'all remember threads like this~?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ittle-too-hard
(That's from 2013)

Like it's really funny how I can play WHM just fine with Cure I/II as primary, and other heals as discretionary in the duty finder content, exactly the way Yoshi-P seems to think the WHM is supposed to work. How many times do I have to keep reviving people? That DPS isn't going to survive standing in 5 overlapping AOE's no matter what you cast on them. That tank that decides to speed run and gather 3 consecutive groups of mobs, that I can deal with too, and would prefer that over being talked down to by other players who think they are too cool to follow the mechanics.

But you raiders, won't let go of your groupthink on this "Tanks and Healers must DPS at every opportunity or you're lazy." You've just been told that you're playing the game wrong by Yoshi-P, and the argument you have is "That isn't how people play it" when in fact people do. Bad advice spreads like the plague. Have you noticed I haven't once advocated that the way I play it is the way you MUST play it? No.

Grow up and be open minded that some of us want to play the game without being told by players how to play the game, at all. If your reaction to not finishing a boss 10 seconds faster is "you must dps or kick" then you're the one with toxic attitude, not the healer.

You are told up front that someone is "new" to the duty, that is your cue to volunteer what is best to do with the mechanics. Some people, like myself, prefer to play them blind, and hopefully let the Tank describe how they want to play it rather than assume j-random-youtuber/wiki is up to date.

But this toxic attitude is what results in "watch a video or kick" as well. That has never changed.

The discussion we should be having is why we tolerate this childish entitlement attitude from speedrunning/raiders at all. The raiders are not helping their case by being rude to me, or others throughout the thread or in the game. The raiders are the one using the unauthorized tools with impunity and even brag about it. So, no. There is no way you know how much damage you or any other party member is doing individually without violating the ToS in real time.

It's time to for SE to take back that message about "kicking for playstyle" being valid, and suspending accounts that kick players without being AFK/Offline.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ically-allowed

That is where playstyle kick reason apparently started BTW. Back in 2014.

[Paladinleeds]

It's time to for SE to take back that message about "kicking for playstyle" being valid, and suspending accounts that kick players without being AFK/Offline.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ically-allowed

Hate to break it to you, but that'll just lead to situations where you have 2 players at an impasse with very different styles, and arguments throughout. Allowing people to kick for playstyle differences helps stop impasses like this, since the majority will rule. Taking that away won't magically stop these arguments from occurring, it'll just leave people without a way to resolve it if there's 2 people that won't adapt.

[Aramina]

The discussion we should be having is why we tolerate this childish entitlement attitude from speedrunning/raiders at all. The raiders are not helping their case by being rude to me, or others throughout the thread or in the game. The raiders are the one using the unauthorized tools with impunity and even brag about it. So, no. There is no way you know how much damage you or any other party member is doing individually without violating the ToS in real time.

No, the discussion is, and should be, why some people think it is ok to sit there with their thumb up their butt for 50+% of the dungeon when the other 3 people are working to finish it.


And for the 438290482394082309 time no one is saying they want healers to do top dps, they are saying they want them to do SOMETHING other than stand there looking cute. If you can't tell the difference between someone casting something ANYTHING and them doing nothing at all, that failure is yours alone.

If someone is playing a healer, they have no down time or the party would be dead in 5 seconds.

Normally I wouldn't do this because everyone's experience varies.... but... I am going to make an exception: Having levelled 4 different characters to 60 as a healer using only dungeons to supplement MSQ exp. This is a lie.

[Anzaman]

Grow up and be open minded that some of us want to play the game without being told by players how to play the game, at all. If your reaction to not finishing a boss 10 seconds faster is "you must dps or kick" then you're the one with toxic attitude, not the healer.

Why should people to open minded to people who AFK and "stare at wall" instead of participating in content?

If someone is playing a healer, they have no down time or the party would be dead in 5 seconds.

You earlier said this, in what content exactly do whole party die if you use two GCD's for throwing DoTs instead of casting Medica spam? If your party keeps standing in AoE's or fail mechanics over and over, do something instead of silently accepting it.

[BlackironTarkus]

Kisai as long as you're mashing buttons and those buttons are contributing something to the run then that's fine. Being lazy is not.

Tanks and DPS are 100% expected to be pushing a button whenever possible. When they are not they get kicked.

If you absolutely do not have downtime in between heals, you're being carried. If you have lots of downtime without overhealing by vast quantities, and not doing anything else, you're being carried. If you're sitting there spamming the hell out of heals AND overhealing by a ton, you're actively hindering your group.

Why should I put in the effort of maintaining my full rotation with gcd weaving if you're not even bothered to push a button between where healing is needed?

Always Be Casting. The mantra of any caster in modern mmo's, healer or not.

[Pells]

...If you absolutely do not have downtime in between heals, you're being carried...

The opposite. If a healer has no downtime, they're doing the carrying.

[missybee]

This gawd awful raider mentality that if you're not constantly casting medica II, you're not healing anyone, raiders keep ignoring the mechanics of the regular content.

I am so triggered by this statement that I am going to go cut my hair short and dye it brick red.

You have to be trolling, right? ...right?