Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[Keridwyn]

apology accepted. we have to cling to our new toy that will allow us to Holy spam.

I would only share if they let me share with the whole class. That would be amazingly broken though.

[Saraphin]

I would only share if they let me share with the whole class. That would be amazingly broken though.

i would share with Red Mages. maybe. because it would be useful for that SC-VerRaise-VerCure-VerRaise(rinse repeat for 12s) thing they can do. that's it. just them. because i'm a greedy little WHM that is staring down stormblood and feeling like i'm that one kid in HS, that everyone picks on. (i know Monks felt this way, and DRGs too at one point)

And yes, i'm aware that SCH's are also taking a hit, WAR a bit, but...yeah this is one of those feelings in the pit of one's stomach and all we can do is hope that the actual release is better.

[javid]

No job will EVER be meant to be seen as a simple job compared to the others, so to those who are of that mentality I listed above ; do us all a favour and stop putting White Mage under that false bracket.

that's your opinion........

Fool or not..... you'd would not be on this forum reading/posting any of this if WHM wasnt second tier to AST/SCH..... so I guess up to this point the designers are fools too...... Either or; I hope your spirited post for the love of the great WHM also hasn't stem from a delusion that the classes have the same learning curve or simplicity of play or provide the same room for error or require the same level of attention to detail....b/c by "foolish design" they aren't the same in capability with JUST varying game-play.

You can't tell us with confidence what is MEANT to be unless you're on the design team or have access to their intention in a way we don't.... What u could tell us is what you currently SEE with your eyes. You see WHM left out of meta, you see skill gaps and steep learning curves among the various jobs.

[fantasticm]

that's your opinion........

Fool or not..... you'd would not be on this forum reading/posting any of this if WHM wasnt second tier to AST/SCH..... so I guess up to this point the designers are fools too...... Either or; I hope your spirited post for the love of the great WHM also hasn't stem from a delusion that the classes have the same learning curve or simplicity of play or provide the same room for error or require the same level of attention to detail....b/c by "foolish design" they aren't the same in capability with JUST varying game-play.

You can't tell us with confidence what is MEANT to be unless you're on the design team or have access to their intention in a way we don't.... What u could tell us is what you currently SEE with your eyes. You see WHM left out of meta, you see skill gaps and steep learning curves among the various jobs.

You've been making less and less sense since you started posting in this thread.

[javid]

You've been making less and less sense since you started posting in this thread.

....for a moment troll, u almost roped me in.... lol

I gotta call BS on this one. WHM has had Stoneskin, which is a fancy name for "single target shield based on the targets max HP" since 2.0 dropped. They had Graniteskin, which made the WHM version of SS stronger than the version SCH could slot, and this gave WHM niche; SCH was the "main" shielder, with the potential for more common shields via Succor and Adlo, while WHM was the "conditional" shielder. I remember back in the day, as a WAR tanking Titan Hard pre-IB change. If I had a good WHM/SCH combination with me, I didn't have to fear Mountain Buster. The Graniteskin from a good WHM and a SCH who was on point with Adlo made all the difference. And it felt nice, seeing that kind of coordination give the result that it did.

So, no, I wouldn't say WHM has *never* been the shielder. They weren't the primary shielder, but they sure as hell had a shield that every healer (and PLD too!) slots on their bar 100% of the time at level cap.

And now that's gone. For a mechanic on a much longer cooldown, gated behind a mostly-RNG based system that rewards suboptimal play.

Stoneskin @ 18% shield, was definitely stronger than adlo (noncrit & no healing buffs) on a tank. It was comparable, however, to adlo when shielding a dps/healer though.

Ever since they reduced it to 10% SE has removed all in game mechs that ABSOLUTELY required two targets receive a shield as potent as Adlo. Nor is there any current mech that REQUIRES both a Stoneskin + Adlo on a single target. Last example of a mech that required double shielding was in T10--if the shield wasn't strong enough for either target, the target would receive a debuff. Last example of mech that made the utmost use of double shielding a single target was t13!!! DAMN-those flattens followed by flare breath were nooo joke....

Unless you're running double WHM, there is no instance where you need a stoneskin when Adlo and Aspect Benefic can do you better, so that's probably why they removed it and gave you something better (though it's not as strong as Stoneskin was at its prime).

Even in Stoneskin's prime, when it use to be 18% of your max HP, it was a situational skill. Cure II for the same mp and shorter cast time gave almost double the potency in effective HP. Basically if the dmg mech did NOT need to be completely absorbed by the Stoneskin, or the target needed additional assistance to having max hp+cds, casting stoneskin was a waste of mp. A Retroactive cure II would have accomplish more healing and require less casting time.


Also fact check: getting Divine benison to execute every minute is 100% possible 100% of the time; at WORST it would cost you a GCD....but then again OLD stoneskin when a situation call for its use....cost you a GCD. Only differences are 18% and 15% and you could spam old Stoneskin until the cows come home. Just b/c you could cast the 18% all day everyday didnt mean it was needed all day everyday.... (thinking bk? I doubt it was even absolutely NEEDED anymore often than once...a minute)

[Kethic]

i would share with Red Mages. maybe. because it would be useful for that SC-VerRaise-VerCure-VerRaise(rinse repeat for 12s) thing they can do. that's it. just them. because i'm a greedy little WHM that is staring down stormblood and feeling like i'm that one kid in HS, that everyone picks on. (i know Monks felt this way, and DRGs too at one point)

And yes, i'm aware that SCH's are also taking a hit, WAR a bit, but...yeah this is one of those feelings in the pit of one's stomach and all we can do is hope that the actual release is better.

I AM looking forward to being the boss dps healer. Not looking forward to working harder for my raid spot, and having effectively nothing new in the expansion (since it currently looks like lilys and conf will be ignored in general usage)

[Saraphin]

I AM looking forward to being the boss dps healer. Not looking forward to working harder for my raid spot, and having effectively nothing new in the expansion (since it currently looks like lilys and conf will be ignored in general usage)

I'm going to hold judgement, depends on the basic dmg done, media release video didn't show much for a healing need (but it was a media build, so we don't know). WHMs are already being...told...they need to change on Ultros to AST, SCH or a DPS, and any recruitments flat out state "NO WHMs". We actually had a Returner get kicked from a dungeon in the first 5min on WHM today...so that was one of those moments that the Mentors were trying to soothe and distract. we got them to laugh and relax and not kneejerk leave, but...it was sad. this is already affecting the player base.

I can only HOPE our DPS can go up...and I agree...probably won't bother with Lily Gauge because of how scripted everything is.

[Miste]

I was talking about collective unconscious. I'm just pointing out that it's ridiculous that Diurnal AST, on top of all the card utility, still gets a party wide 10% damage mitigation tool in Stormblood(that ALSO adds a HoT).

Do you play AST? Because....collective unconscious sucks.

It is extremely situational because the AST has to channel it and cannot move or cast any abilities to use it and depending on the server tick you could be sitting there up to 3 seconds waiting for the buffs to proc before you can cancel it.

The AST has to continuously be stuck channeling it to get the 10% shield part of it so it is often just used to get the Regen from it then it is promptly cancelled which is similar to Asylum but WHM's can use Asylum freely with no restrictions and can be placed anywhere. As someone who plays both WHM and AST...WHM wins this one with Asylum imo. It is way more flexible and reliable than collective unconscious.

Not to mention you are missing the fact that AST having collective unconscious doesn't actually change anything and it is possibly needed for a certain healer composition to be viable.

With NoctAST + WHM pair the shield part of collective unconscious can be a, albeit crappy, replacement for SCH's Sacred Soil...so if AST didn't have this then the NoctAST + WHM pair would be missing mitigation that may be needed for boss ultimates. AST also doesn't have deployment tactics either so missing some more powerful shields there as well. This would make NoctAST + WHM pair possibly less viable...which isn't what we want.

With Diurnal AST + SCH healing pair...the AST doesn't need the shield part of collective unconscious anyway since SCH has Sacred Soil; so the benefit is negligible . It's only helpful if the SCH doesn't want to use a stack on it but also Sacred Soil, like Asylum, is way more flexible and doesn't need to be channeled.

The channeling aspect of collective unconscious makes it useless to use as a sacred soil replacement for anything except boss ultimate attacks (IE: A12 after adds and Alex Prime tries to melt your face off and you need the tank LB etc)...because you only get the 10% reduction as long as the AST is channeling then they can no longer move or use any other spells/abilities.

No good AST is going to sit for all of collective unconscious' duration to get the 10% shield when they could be using cards, direct healing, or DPSing so collective unconscious is basically just AST's crappy version of Asylum or crappy Sacred Soil replacement when paired with a WHM; so I really don't think it is one of the issues we are facing with healer balance.

[Kethic]

I'm going to hold judgement, depends on the basic dmg done, media release video didn't show much for a healing need (but it was a media build, so we don't know). WHMs are already being...told...they need to change on Ultros to AST, SCH or a DPS, and any recruitments flat out state "NO WHMs". We actually had a Returner get kicked from a dungeon in the first 5min on WHM today...so that was one of those moments that the Mentors were trying to soothe and distract. we got them to laugh and relax and not kneejerk leave, but...it was sad. this is already affecting the player base.

I can only HOPE our DPS can go up...and I agree...probably won't bother with Lily Gauge because of how scripted everything is.

The DELETE XXX theme needs to go. It could have been any class, and it's just people finding excuses to be abusive. WHM was the worst healer for 3.x raid content, and they're still present multiple times in top 50 parses. If a group is flat out saying No WHM, then they're saying they're incompetent.

I am a WHM main, I will find a way to raid, and this will all work itself out one way or another. Lily's and Confessions are a huge disappointment and will be ignored, but the rest of the rework does make us DPS monsters while our HoTs tick away unattended. Some of my napkin math suggests our personal DPS could potentially make up the difference of a Balance, and unless we absolutely need that shield at a particular moment, Lily's will be spent blindly to buy more DPS GCDs. It's going to be that good; even more so if the Raid Bosses aren't single target. Crit procs might be a differentiator.

The reputation damage has already been done, though, and the design is discouragingly bad. Here's hoping for a useful rework.

[Saraphin]

Snip.

They are finding a way to be abusive, and the Vet Players are not the only ones to feel the hit, the new players, the ones coming back are being slighted on.

I did raid in 3.X on a WHM, cleared a9s on a two shot with some friends. so i know it's possible. Didn't go further due to a toxic static, but that's not the point. (The ALT healers had AST and SCH and I wasn't pressured to change my healer, thankfully, but we had 3 people that could heal, so our AST could go MNK, i know, le gasp, we used a MNK, when our other healer was there.)

we can only HOPE that the patch notes will help with this, but...as you said, the Reputation Damage has been done, and those that started it, most likely were on one of the many WHM threads where they crunched numbers and proved that currently AST is Out WHMing WHMs....and nearly Out SCHing SCHs.