Players need more power

[gifthorse]

Yeah man I COMPLETELY agree with you. Whether or not FFXIV has the balls to take us there, future MMOs will head in this direction. Two promising things come to mind. One, if stats were more potent and we could reallocate them to a point of throwing ourselves off balance, that would be great. Imagine doing 5x damage but having 5x less hp. Playing with others would definitely come into use there. Two, player housing. If they let us craft our own houses, perhaps a bit like Minecraft, and put them wherever we want in the world, that would be grand.

Yeah, I think that sometimes SE just hates the idea of fun. Do you ever get that impression? For instance, chocobos on a 15 minute timer making you stress about getting to your destination within the alotted time period. Heaven forbid we just enjoy ourselves while riding.

SE also has a lot of hangups about giving people freedoms. This is why the armory system is so surprising, considering it's somewhat against their usual philosophy of coercing players into doing something one specific way. So maybe SE is making some progress.

One of the issues will be coding for the implementation of such systems, but the biggest issue will be making SE think they are a good idea.

[Alexis_Arteme]

Agreed, SWG was amazing in terms of player housing. When I figured out the factories and mass-production, I was absolutely astounded. The first game that brings anything like that back ... wow. That would be hard to resist.

[Dreamer]

I've never thought the purpose of my character in an MMO was to change the world. My goal has always been the joy of working with others towards a common goal. It's like working on a group project with a group of friends - there's a real sense of joy and accomplishment when everything comes together.

[Eolrid]

developers should change their design philosophy from that of "give players something to do" to instead "give players the tools to make something to do."

Totally agree. In fact, that's always been my problem with most "sandbox" games. Like in Star Wars Galaxies or Darkfall or any of the other ones -- I'd jump in, think the idea is cool, but then realize there's nothing but sand (though SWG was still a great experience).

I like games that give players the freedom to do what they want, but players do need to be given more tools to create their own stories.

As difficult as it would be to add those sorts of things into a game (especially one that's already been released), doing so would mean the game and its players could create their own content without any further intervention from the devs, and would ultimately add to the longevity of the game.

And, really, it all comes back to "games" vs "worlds." Most MMOs don't reach their full potential because they're just online games. Ultima Online, EVE Online (which is a great example of a game in which the majority of its content is player-created), and yeah, even SWG at least felt like worlds. WoW, EQ, and I suppose FFXIV at this point just feel like online games.

Player housing, fleshing out linkshells/guilds to have a ton of management options, politics, territory control, crafting (perhaps opening up the whole wards thing to allow players to create their own shops, etc.) -- all those sorts of things add to the "world," and give players avenues to create their own content.

[Mega]

Bravo! /clap

MMOs have become stagnant for the last decade with only minor innovations sprouting up now and again. The purpose of an MMO is an ever-evolving one. Companies interpret these adventures differently but I see many players/posters summarizing the experience into "themeparks".

Playing online with others isnt anything special anymore like it was in the days of XI or Everquest. We're all waiting patiently, twiddling our thumbs for the next great idea. Something to get excited about.

I believe SE is making the attempt with "Public Companies". However, it will likely have many limits and restrictions if the games current state is any forecast.

I would like to share what MMO innovation looks like. And ya know what? It's not dressed up in super HD graphics or an epic dragon crashing in from the sky to fight.

I present you with (looks @Neptune..) :
MINECRAFT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaMTedT6P0I

This is what the OP is asking big developers with deep pockets to do. Wake up and start being artists again like they were from 1987 to 1998. Do you see the dungeons in that vid? They are huge and imaginative and yet the grfx are horrible. I want to be dazzled. I want to be immersed. I want XIV to get real. HOPE AND CHANGE!

[Keith_Dragoon]

I would enjoy the ability to build a small/large kingdom in a game (not FFXIV) almost similar to what they promoted with the King of Kings 3 beta.

Supposedly a player could create a guild, invite friends who then started building their own homes while inviting more friends who repeated the proccess. Abit down the road your houses become part of a town, that town becomes a kingdom and that kingdom could be allied with another kingdom to create a Legion. Up to 6 guilds were allowed to combine into a Legion and the 6 leaders were all in somewat of a city council so no leader had power over another so to speak.

Was a pretty awesome idea when i first read it but later was told that game was terribad so I never got to try it out myself.

Heres a link to the game description: http://kingofkings3.gamigo.com/the_g...ses_and_towns/

[gifthorse]

I've never thought the purpose of my character in an MMO was to change the world. My goal has always been the joy of working with others towards a common goal. It's like working on a group project with a group of friends - there's a real sense of joy and accomplishment when everything comes together.

Pity how in most MMOs the common goal you're all working towards is so futile.

[Gun_Anam]

I believe the less power players have in a game the better. Just look at all the ridiculously bad suggestions that have been made on these forums for changes to the game. If even 10% of those suggestions were implemented you'd have loads more people leaving the game than there would be joining it.

Turf wars, as described earlier, can be seen in games like Aion, whereby players must defend territory against NPC's and PC's. Such large scale events would not be possible in FFXIV due to graphical restrictions. I believe Aion also had plans for player housing and territory wars for the housing, from what I remember from some visions of Aion video they had a while back. Perhaps you should be playing that instead. If that's the kind of thing you're looking for, then FFXIV isn't the game for you.

That kind of gameplay isn't suitable for a casual friendly game. Only those active enough to be able to defend their territory would have any chance of enjoying the content while casual players would only be able to look at what other people have and realise it's nothing they'll ever be able to accomplish in the game. So we lose the casual player population, lose the income to the game that they provide and lose a lot of support for the game. Then we're left with a bunch of hardcore players fighting over the scraps that remain of a dead game in hope to gain some sort of 'respect' for their efforts.

At the end of the day, people have different ideas of what a good game is, hence people play different games. Instead of coming to FFXIV and trying to change it into something you want to play, you're better off finding a game you want to play. It's like a FPS player coming to FFXIV and complaining that it's not a FPS game.

[gifthorse]

I believe the less power players have in a game the better. Just look at all the ridiculously bad suggestions that have been made on these forums for changes to the game. If even 10% of those suggestions were implemented you'd have loads more people leaving the game than there would be joining it.

Lol. Well obviously the power invested to players would be restricted to lessen the impact of poor decisions.

Turf wars, as described earlier, can be seen in games like Aion, whereby players must defend territory against NPC's and PC's. Such large scale events would not be possible in FFXIV due to graphical restrictions. I believe Aion also had plans for player housing and territory wars for the housing, from what I remember from some visions of Aion video they had a while back. Perhaps you should be playing that instead. If that's the kind of thing you're looking for, then FFXIV isn't the game for you.

Well, Vanguard and Ultima Online both had player housing without having turf warfare. So one can exist without the other.

I was merely providing a counterpoint to my own argument for the sake of fairness. I think turf warfare and territorial -control are features which can help stem the abuse of poorly placed housing, but they themselves come with their fair share of abuse-issues. So you have to weigh one against the other.

The way Vanguard dealth with the issue was to make specific points where houses could be built.

That kind of gameplay isn't suitable for a casual friendly game. Only those active enough to be able to defend their territory would have any chance of enjoying the content while casual players would only be able to look at what other people have and realise it's nothing they'll ever be able to accomplish in the game.

Again, Im not saying I am endorsing territorial control and seige warfare, and quite frankly SE is way to crappy at network coding to even make it feasible, I was just throwing it out there. But I'd like to point out that other games that have implemented player-built cities (Age of Conan, ArcheAge) made sieges consentual. You couldn't just attack whenever you wanted. You had to declare war and then both parties came to an arrangement of when they would battle.

So we lose the casual player population, lose the income to the game that they provide and lose a lot of support for the game. Then we're left with a bunch of hardcore players fighting over the scraps that remain of a dead game in hope to gain some sort of 'respect' for their efforts.

Wow, we're all doomed!

At the end of the day, people have different ideas of what a good game is, hence people play different games. Instead of coming to FFXIV and trying to change it into something you want to play, you're better off finding a game you want to play. It's like a FPS player coming to FFXIV and complaining that it's not a FPS game.

Actually, if you consider the game FFXIV was trying to be (before Yoshi came along), they seemed to be taking an unconventional approach.

If you think about crafting classes, for example, you see that the ultimate role of a crafter was supposed to be to play the market system. Tanaka said so himself. This is why the market wards had stalls with different models. Crafters could differentiate themselves in the marketplace and gain notoriety. THe system fails for several reasons, but I think if SE had allowed players to build their own persistent shops, as opposed to or in conjunction with the retainer system, then crafters could have had a new outlet to fulfill their role as a crafter.

Again, one of the telling remarks Yoshi let slip has been on the subject of "Private Companies". Originally, Private Companies were meant to be a collection of linkshells where players could build/own their own company house and build/own their own ship. Yoshi said they aren't releasing Private Companies yet because he doesn't know exactly what private companies are supposed to do.

And this is relevant because it just goes to show that some of the things I mentioned - such as player-built housing - was already slated for release.

It's not exactly a great leap to suggest they give players the ability to build their houses anywhere they want. It's not changing the fundamentals of FFXIV. In fact it's probably just improving upon them.

Most of the things people are asking for around here, as you so rightly alluded to, ARE in fact changing the basis of the game. Comparatively, I don't see why I am any worse. Besides, the original title of this thread was "players need more power" and that's what the discussion should revolve around, not just the one example I cited which you might disagree with.

[Kaedan]

So do you think players need more power to change and effect the world? Is there a chance of abuse? Or would you prefer to just do quests and instanced content which the developers give you? Or both?

All you have to do is play Minecraft on a public server to answer this question.

And that answer is a resounding NO.